my friend told me that monk is the stronger character of Baldur's Gate. is this true? if u dont agree.. please tell me what the strongest of the game would be.. for me i think mage is the strongest.. as long as u know how to use it.

Hmmm I would vote for Sorcerer as the strongest with Cavalier in second place. The Monk is very powerful at later levels but in the beginning it is very weak...

Yet both the Sorcerer and Cavalier start strong and continue to improve throughout the game.

Welcome to Ironworks BTW! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Welcome to Ironworks!

Hmmm... BARBARIAN!

Dwarven Fighter : P

Let me note that the dwarf is also the sexiest character in the game. *wiggles his dwarfy beard.*

are we talking about dual and multi-classes as well? If we are, then Kensai-Mage has got to be one of teh best classes. If not, then the sorc takes teh cake.

The strongest SINGLE character would probably be a Kensai/Mage dual-class.

Other strong characters include:
Kensai/Thief dual-class
Wizard Slayer/Thief dual-class
Assassin/Fighter dual-class
Sorcerer
Cleric/Mage multi-class

Kensai/Mage *is* powerful... but a sorc has no real need of the blade. Ideally, they stay out of melee altogether. It's a tossup between the sorc and the cleric/mage. In fact, there's a thread delving into that right now.
Welcome to IW, and please delete the previous thread. It was a doublepost. I'm sure it was an accident, but take care of it nonetheless.

Sorcerer. This guy is walking time bomb. After hit there is Cleric/Mage. I soloed a Sorcerer and it was fun. Now i have to do it with C/M too.

Sorceror is the strongest is the game. No arguements about it.

Sorceror is the strongest is the game. No arguements about it. </font>[/QUOTE]Do you see "Sorcerer is not the strongest character in the game" anywhere? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I tought not. [img]tongue.gif[/img] I just mentioned C/M right after him.

The Cavalier does get the +5 Holy Avenger though and that's a good thing... ;)

A level 30 Cavalier versus a level 30 sorc, though... The Cavalier might be able to cut up the sorc, if the Cavalier gets close enough, and the sorc doesn't have Protection from Magical Weapons cast.
However, let's play this out. Give the Cavalier Carsomyr, and give the sorc the Robe of Vecna.
Cavalier- Attacks Sorceror
Sorceror- Casts Improved Alacrity
Sorceror- Casts Flame Arrow
Sorceror- Does (damage) to Cavalier
Sorceror- Casts Flame Arrow
Sorceror- Does (damage) to Cavalier
Sorceror- Casts Magic Missile
Sorceror- Does (damage) to Cavalier
Sorceror- Casts Power Word: Kill
Cavalier- Death
Winner- Sorceror

Sure, I see where you're coming from, InjaYew, and a cavalier with the Holy Avenger is fine against monsters, but I think, to judge two classes, we have to assume they'll be fighting each other. I think the only real tossup, when it comes to power, is Sorceror Versus Cleric/Mage. That, to me, is the only real question.

[ 01-31-2004, 08:01 PM: Message edited by: Illumina Drathiran'ar ]

Well, out of the classes I've played, I'd say my Halfling Swashbuckler was the strongest. So I'll vote for the Swashbuckler, until I've played all classes and probably end up changing it.

Tashia was a powerhouse when I used her in one of my games, so right next to Kensai and Cleric/Mage, I'll say it's the Sorcerer class.

sorceror, or high level cleric mage

if only you could make a sorceror cast cleric spells...

With TOB installed I vote for fighter/mage multiclass. Can protect and attack. Can combine Time stop and many auto hits + other almost cheesy combos.

Why Fighter/Mage multiclass when you can have Kensai/Mage dual class?

Why Fighter/Mage multiclass when you can have Kensai/Mage dual class? </font>[/QUOTE]To quote Leslie: F/M Multi-Class eats Kensai->Mage Dual-Class for breakfast. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Why? It is MC so you get HLA`s from both world. And you don`t have to wait for an eternity to re-activate like when you are DCing.

Ye lads be forgettin' that some characters can get 100% MR easily. Such as the Paladin and the Wizard/Thief.

Sure but MR isn`t all that much. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Why Fighter/Mage multiclass when you can have Kensai/Mage dual class? </font>[/QUOTE]To quote Leslie: F/M Multi-Class eats Kensai->Mage Dual-Class for breakfast. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Why? It is MC so you get HLA`s from both world. And you don`t have to wait for an eternity to re-activate like when you are DCing. </font>[/QUOTE]Actually, level 21 Kensai/Level 22 Mage is optimum.

We get several Fighter HLAs and several Mage HLAs. More hitpoints. Kensai to hit/damage bonuses.

Granted, we do have to wait for the mage class to activate, but it FLIES by in the later stages of the game... plus we have LOOOOOOOOOOOAAADS of hitpoints to play with [img]smile.gif[/img]

Kensai/Mage over the dual class every time.

kensai mage..i also agree...but not dualing so high...

i mean tensor's transformation will make a 12th level dual hit much harder than its level of kensai...

the crucial abilites are grandmastery, and the fast level progression...

Of the less conventional options - I think that a ranger/cleric is very powerful. A fighter who can hide in shadows and cast divine spells.

Before people jump all over me - I know that DeMolay asked about "the strongest", but the debate is more or less the same every time this issue comes up so I thought I'd add my 2 pesos.

The one you love the most.

dundee is right...

i love sorcerors...i love sorcerors...because i love them so, i've spent outrageous amounts of time learning spells, designing and redesigning perfect spell tables, and i even wrote the cheese guide mostly for sorcerors...

right now, i am taking an assassin mage thru the game, doing advanced beta testing...and i keep thinking, i miss my sorceror...i miss my sorceror...

i know all the tricks i've developed for a sorceror, and all the fun things a sorceror can do, so even tho i know how to get good effect out of an assassin mage, i won't be as effective as i would be playing a sorceror...i know how to squeeze out the best spells, best summons, best spell tables for my style of play...

so i am much more dangerous and effective playing a sorceror against someone who normally plays paladins, and is playing a sorceror..

on the other hand, i would have my head handed to me playing paladin against a person who normally plays a paladin...

you forget the 50% magic resistance given by carsomyr, see the above edits.

even if it blocks two of the damage spells instead of the power word kill, he would still have enough hit points to beat the power word.

sorceror: casts g acuity
sorceror: casts sunfire
chavalier: wounded.
sorceror: casts dragon breath

cleaning staff takes weeks cleaning up little chavalier bits strewn across to the next county...

sunfire, dragon breath, teleportation field ignores magic resistance... [img]smile.gif[/img]

Anyways, who cares about MR? 3 Lower resistances in spell trigger and chain contingency pretty much covers it i think [img]smile.gif[/img] and these two spells take 0 casting time and so the cavalier is in trouble [img]smile.gif[/img]

So how is the cavalier going to see the mage while he has spell immunity: divination and staff of the magi? [img]smile.gif[/img]

While I'm not disputing the fact that Wizards are the hands-down asskickers of BG2, you guys are selling the other classes rather short.

Cavalier with 95% MR (Carsomyr, Amulet, Gaxx, Cloak) vs. Sorcerer

I'm assuming SoA here--no Hell Trials, no 9th-level spells, because as soon as the Sorcerer has access to Time Stop and Shapechange, debate becomes rather pointless.

The Sorcerer <u>has</u> to open the battle with SI:Abj, because otherwise his PfMW will probably fall to a Dispel Magic from Carsomyr or the Cavalier himself. He can be comfortably protected by the SotM while he does this. During this round, the Cavalier is probably casting Animate Dead or something.

Now the Sorcerer can put up PfMW, and start casting Lower MR. At -27% per round, three castings of it will bring the Cavalier down to 11%. Unless, of course, he's equipped himself like any thinking person would have done, and simply slapped 5 Potions of Invisibility in his Quickslot. Ooops! Wasted spell! And even if you used your Spell Trigger for them, all you've done is lower the MR of an enemy you can't see anymore. Even casting True Sight won't be much help: You still can't see him if he had the brains to simply leave your sight range. And even with his MR gone, you've still got his Saving Throws and Resistances to deal with.

So don't underestimate the other classes; assuming they'll just stand there and let you shoot them is completely nonsensical. True, the Sorcerer can always get away (when the Sorcerer comes back after your buffs have worn off), since the SotM's invisibility will not fall to Dispel Magic. But still, all the Cavalier lost in this battle is a single Potion of Invisibility (unless you count the Animate Dead).

however, with sunfire, you only need to know approximately where they are...

spell trigger sunfire, sunfire, sunfire

spell sequencer mirror image, stoneskin, teleportation field...

(the sequencer is if the chavalier is immune to fire)

the sunfire has a good chance of blasting the chavalier...

if the chavalier is smart and is immune to fire, start summoning skeleton warriors...they can see invisible, and if the chavalier starts turning undead, use true sight while he is busy turning undead...then use project image, and start summoning both mordenkainen swords and skeleton warriors...if he quaffs a potion, the skeleton warrior will target him for the mordenkainen swords, if he turns undead, the swords will disrupt him...and he doesn't have deathspell... ;)

Userunfriendly, you're still assuming that the Cavalier is either visible and/or nearby--he doesn't have to be either. Warriors trying to kill Wizards are under no obligation whatsoever to stick around and try to get the job done while the Wizard's protection spells are going full-blast. No, if they were smart they'd be off in the distance, casting Glyphs of Warding by all the doorways.....or sprinting over to you to cast Cloak of Fear in your general area.

*Blink* *Blink*

Skeleton Warriors cannot see invisible targets. Planetars can though.

true...and of course the sorceror is not prevented from summoning invisible stalkers or skeleton warriors via project image, creating a large army of summons to flood the chavalier...

my point is that time delay tactics are to the sorceror's benefit..a bit of planning, and the sorceror can survive a lightning quick immediate attack, even kill the chavalier quickly...but if the chavalier decides to play a delay tactic, that works out even better for the sorceror...project image, and create some nice, long lasting summons, and start searching the battlefield... ;)

yes they can...i am sure of it... i've seen skeleton warriors go after invisible targets lots of times...not only their description says so, but my personal experience...

Well, in my personal experience, Skeleton Warriors do not target invisible targets.

The most glaring example will be the fight with the first Boss in ToB. When that Boss turns invisible, the Skeletons stand stock-still while the Planetars continue to merrily chase the Boss.

Are you sure you are not mistaking the Skeleton Warriors going to the last spot where they last saw the target? This is quite a common behaviour.

Also, if you have the Improved Undead component of the Tactics Mod, the Skeleton Warriors will cast spells on invisible party members, but not attack them physically.

Basically, both hostile and your Skeleton Warriors cannot detect invisible targets.

I'm actually not qualified to argue having never played a sorceror before. I've done a pure fighter, a cavalier, and now I'm a ranger\cleric. I usually like to play a battle mage type character so I can be ready for more varied situations. Next game I will probably try the sorceror since I've been reading more about them here. The magical characters take some thought, planning, and a good working knowledge of the spell book. I don't think I could have hacked it (no pun intended) as a purely magical character in the beginning. I might have a better chance at it now. I am curious though, how does one handle magic resistant beings like golems? (I hope I haven't over-looked this on this thread. If I have, just ignore me. ;) )

you could be right...well, i'll just have to experiment..

no, i think you're right, since most of the times i've fought skellies, they were with lich friends, so the LICH guided skeletons to attack me...

once again, planetars and devas are the finest summons xp can buy...

I'm actually not qualified to argue having never played a sorceror before. I've done a pure fighter, a cavalier, and now I'm a ranger\cleric. I usually like to play a battle mage type character so I can be ready for more varied situations. Next game I will probably try the sorceror since I've been reading more about them here. The magical characters take some thought, planning, and a good working knowledge of the spell book. I don't think I could have hacked it (no pun intended) as a purely magical character in the beginning. I might have a better chance at it now. I am curious though, how does one handle magic resistant beings like golems? (I hope I haven't over-looked this on this thread. If I have, just ignore me. ;) ) </font>[/QUOTE]certain spells ignore magic resistance...also summons will whack magic resistant creatures like golems...

And the level 5 spell Lower Resistance

Just to throw a spanner in the debate, a sorceror is at a sever disadvantage when navigating an unknown environment, isn't he?

Sure, when soloing an area you've done before, you know where the traps are, and what buffs to cast and where NOT to walk...I wish summons could trigger traps.