What is the best way to kill vampires? I keep getting waylayed by 3 vampires in Docks district trying to return to thieves guild to tell renal i have killed the guy that betrayed him, and keep getting killed by those 3 vampires! :(

Thats the thing there is no good way to kill a vampire something bad will always happen. All ways concentrate your power on the strongest one though, that is usually the female.

yes, their level drain is pretty formidable for a new party.... do you have any way to get negative plane protection? I.E. amulet of power, clerical spell, ect. If so, you can put negative plane protection(this will protect from level drain) on your best fighter, OR your mage(assuming you still have your warning from the cowled wizards remaining I.E. have never used magic in the city streets, because you will need it to throw up spells in combat, or if you know when the vampires will trigger, you can throw up arcane buffs indoors), and have your mage put up stoneskins (4th level spell), and mirror image (2nd level I believe)and have him absorb the vampires hits while your tanks hack away at the undead menace. There is also a very simple way to kill vampires of that level (or seriously wound them) and that is obtaining a weapon named Daystar and using its innate sunray ability, the daystar is obtained in
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The inn in the city gates district (the name escapes me, something crane I think), go inside and eventually you will detect a secret door that leads to a battle with a lich. However, you can have a thief go invisible, go pick the lock on the chest and grab daystar before the lich starts blasting you (IIRC, not only is this weapon deadly to undead, one of its abilities is a once per day spell called sunray, which will SERIOUSLY hurt all undead creatures.

Barring these two options you really are fairly limited, you could try hasting your whole party and praying, or hasting your party and equiping everyone with ranged weapons and hope you get lucky.....

Or you could remember that vampires only come out at certain times of the day, and not travel during that time.

Using Negatve plane protection counts at as a spell and the cowled wizards will warn you for it. But that would be a good tactic out side of Athkatal.

Name of the building is crooked crane [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 11-09-2003, 01:12 AM: Message edited by: Dar'tanian ]

You can cast Negative Plane Protection a hundred times a day and no Cowled Wizard shall harrass you, for NPP is not an arcane spell.

Now don't go around frightening people, people [img]graemlins/idontagreeatall.gif[/img]
Of course vampires are tough, but there are some weapons and tactics that will take the "un" out of "undead" fairly early in the game:
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• Daystar has already been mentioned. While the sword alone isn't that effective Sunray will put almost any undead creature to (Near) Death.</font>
• Azuredge, a throwing axe with the ability to slay undead if save is failed can be purchased at the CC once the slaver quests are finished</font>
• Negative Plane Protection on one tank and ranged support from all the others</font>
• A scroll of protection from undead will also do the trick</font>
• You're outdoor, so have your druid use "Call Lightning". It's a kickass spell andmost importantly party-and-neutral-friendly</font>
• To be able to cast arcane spells you can either purchase a magic license at the government district or just do one simple spell (preferably invisibility or Shadow Door) with your mage alone (keep the others away) and run out of sight when the Cowleds teleport in. Thus you don't need to fight them (yet)</font>

[ 11-09-2003, 02:44 AM: Message edited by: Faceman ]

to add to your list, Mace of Disruption +1(+2, with improved MoD) is considered to be the most effective undead-destroying weapon in the game, by some. The improved version even grants Negative Plane Protection when used! How nice is that? The downside is, its found in a rather annoying place, considering that its meant to kill undead(e.g vampires)...

The problem is, a hit from a vamp means automatic level drain, unless protected from magical weapons...they may not physically hurt you, but they WILL level drain your mage wether or not he has MI and SS...

I didn't mention MoD because he obviously has a low-level party and seems to be still in Chapter 2.
Mirror Image might not fully protect you, but if you're mirrored you got a good chance not YOU get hit, but just an image and the vampires level drain goes wasted. If you got 4 mirrors for example your chance to get hit is narrowed down by 80%, which is pretty decent.

actually, it doesnt work like that. even if the vamp hits the image, your mage gets level drained. it may have been intended to work like you mentioned, but it doesnt. sucks, dont it?

Thanks for the help guys [img]smile.gif[/img] I managed to beat the vampires [img]smile.gif[/img] Don't know how i did it, but i did [img]smile.gif[/img] Yeah i'm pretty far past my warning lol from the wizards so I couldn't cast outdoors without them coming for my head! There is a way to buy a license? Didn't know that i'll have to check that out at the Government district, thanks for the help guys!

There are a few people in Athkatla who point the way. I believe one of them is that scroll selling witch in the Adv. Mart

Well, if you have NPP on like I said, then stoneskins and mirror image would be a valid defense against vampires =)

that's awfully true! though i must add, vampires aint hard after you get the level drain outa the way. well, they do have that annoying charm, but ya get what mean...

Don't forget to turn undead!

Yet another way to handle vamps: have one person draw their fire, then just run around. Give the other five chars missile weapons and begin target practice. You'll often get lucky: the vamp can't quite hit the runner, but keeps chasing him. If you're not lucky, you may get tagged a couple of times, in which case you go to a temple and get restored (or cast Lesser Restoration, which you might have by that level).

which requires pretty high level clerics. His problem is that he's still rather low on levels or else he would just chew these three vamps up with his tanks and get a restoration at the temple afterwards (if needed).

I suspect that Daystar might be hard for him to get at this point, too.

Getting Daystar is fairly easy at any level. All you need is an invisible character with a mediocre lockpicking score. Sneak in - steal Daystar - flee.
Alternatively you can use sunray, but there's no guarantee it will take ut the lich.

EDIT] swapped "pickpocket for "lockpicking". Nasty typo ;) thx to Sonic for pointing it out [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[ 11-12-2003, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Faceman ]

Faceman: Sure - I know that and you know that (and now KamadorWizard does, too), but I didn't think everybody would their first time through the game (esp. in Ch2) [img]smile.gif[/img]

You're right of course. It's my inner smartass ;) I try to keep him down, but sometimes he just gets out ;)

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My first time taking on that lich, I ran out of the crypt and the inn right after he summoned the pit fiend, not knowing that the lich and the fiend would follow me and absolutely destroy the Gates District. I never knew one little screen could contain quite so much flaming destruction. The good citizens (rightly) realized that I started the whole thing and my reputation took a real dive.


... Anyway, KamadorWizard (if you're still reading this), the strategy of "put forward one negative-plane protected character and have the rest shoot from a distance" is a good one, until later on when some vampires get wise to it and go after only non-protected characters.

You wanna kill a lich? Summon a skeleton warrior... if he 'death-spells' it, summon another...

Of course, you must be lvl15 for that and that can be a problem...

Well, just wear amulet of power... Aran Linvail gives it to you in the first time you talk to him... if you do not meet the class requirements, negative plane protection, as my conrad dundee said, will not bother the cowled ones cuz its a priest spell...

You should memorize lesser restoration too, after the battle, if there is anyone level-drained, just cast it...

cya

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It takes a little bit more than just summoning two skels....
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actually, it doesnt work like that. even if the vamp hits the image, your mage gets level drained. it may have been intended to work like you mentioned, but it doesnt. sucks, dont it? </font>[/QUOTE]Sorry to contradict, but Faceman is right. As long as at least one Image is active, there is only a 1 in (# of Images + 1) chance that the real you will get hit, even against things like Level Drain--heck, even against things like Cloudkill. ("Of course I can breathe this toxic gas! I'm protected by an Illusin spell!")

Oh Snap!! Does this work for all non arcane spells? If so, how can you tell if it is non-arcane!?

There are 4 types of spells.

Arcane (Mage/Sorcerer/Bard)

Divine (Paladin/Druid/Cleric/Ranger)

Innate (can overlap with Arcane or Divine)

Class (can overlap with Arcane or Divine)

Oh Snap!! Does this work for all non arcane spells? If so, how can you tell if it is non-arcane!? </font>[/QUOTE]Generally:
Arcane = Wizard spell = SPWIxx (resource name)
Divine = Priest spell = SPCLxx (resource name)

So for the most spells it's as simple as having your mages/sorcerers/bards do nothing and your clerics/druids/rangers/paladins cast the spells you need.
If innate spells or spell used by items are equal to a normal spell (e.g. Sunray from Daystar) they are mostly (not always) treated like this spell.
This can lead to really annoying glitches. In earlier versions of the game for example Keldorn's sword (the Hallowed Redeemer, which does magic damage to opponents who hit Keldorn in melee combat) - This sword's effect was flagged as an arcane spell, thus causing the Cowleds to appear everytime Keldorn got attacked by some sorry mugger.

Correct me if im wrong BUT isnt the *Dayster*in the chest NOT on the lich,the lich only got some wands but behind him you find a chest and there you will find *Dayster*So no pickpocket needed.And the lich is veary easy : He does protection spells and then time stops,When he does time stop run upp and rest(Hes doing a spell so he wont follow you)And after you rested go down agin he will do some new protection spells and when he starts on a new time stop run up to the inn keeper and rest agin (The lich wont follow if he is doing a spell)AND now fix protection spells and go down,now he is *Clean*And easy to hit so he maybi does a protection from magic weapons but then do spells on him(IF your not playing a solo fighter,Paladin,Ranger,thief,barbarian,monk or any other *non spell casting*Class.This is the tactic im doing on liches..On vampires it NPP And/Or Amulet of power+a good unded weapon : The unded mace +1 or imporved+2,Dayster,And the trowing axe (Cant remember its name) you find it in cc.And another tactic is *turn unded* but you might not be that level that is required to destroy an unded whit *Turn unded*.This is all i got at this moment but if i find any more (And BETTER tactics)I come here and say ..Good luck Sonic.

Thx for the correction (I edited my post). I meant to say "lockpicking" of course.
And of course this Lich (and many others) is easy to beat with the change-area cheese. You don't even have to rest. Just move in and out (preferably with one party member only, leave the others outside the inn). Thus his spells won't hit you and eventually he will run out of offensive spells and is pretty easy prey.
The lockpick-and-run tactic however also works non-cheese and this is what I try to encourage in people who play the game for the first or second time ;)

Without:
1. run-in, run-out, rinse, repeat; or
2. run in, grab sword, fry lich with it,
a chapter 2 (or early 3) party is likely to have a lot of trouble with the lich. He's in a very small room and your merry adventurers likely can't take a combination of time stop/meteor/wail, etc. with nowhere to hide. Come to think of it, if you take him on early in the game (first time through), he's right up there in terms of toughness.

actually, it doesnt work like that. even if the vamp hits the image, your mage gets level drained. it may have been intended to work like you mentioned, but it doesnt. sucks, dont it? </font>[/QUOTE]Sorry to contradict, but Faceman is right. As long as at least one Image is active, there is only a 1 in (# of Images + 1) chance that the real you will get hit, even against things like Level Drain--heck, even against things like Cloudkill. ("Of course I can breathe this toxic gas! I'm protected by an Illusin spell!") </font>[/QUOTE]I must say that it is like I said in the first place. I even tested it. Put on stoneskin+mirror image, CLUA in a vamp and watch as your levels get drained. Either the vamp was really accurate, or then theres something weird in either my game or yours(which i find unlikely, since im patched-to-the-max, as i believe you are too...), and then theres that slim chance that im right for once... :D [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 11-12-2003, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Raistlin Majere ]

Just tested it and you ARE correct. Neither Mirror Image nor Stoneskin stop level draining. It can be noticed easily as your mage gets level drained but not hurt.
It is however completely illogical and therefore a bug.
I did a quick search and it is listed on Baldurdash's buglist, but not fixed:
[ 11-12-2003, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Faceman ]

I never said that Stoneskin would block Level Drain, nor would I: Stoneskin only blocks physical damage, nothing else. A Stoneskinned Mage is a Level-Drained Mage. And I note that the Baldurdash quote you posted mentions Stoneskin....but *not* Mirror Image.

As for Level Drain penetrating Mirror Image, though, that's news to me. I've always been safe enough using it a last-ditch measure, and it seems to work--there's always the chance that the Vampire will happen to hit the real you, but that's the chance you take.

I'd test it, but in my current games, there aren't any Vampires left....and I'm in no hurry to labor through Imp. Ilyich all over again just yet.

I never said that Stoneskin would block Level Drain, nor would I: Stoneskin only blocks physical damage, nothing else. A Stoneskinned Mage is a Level-Drained Mage. And I note that the Baldurdash quote you posted mentions Stoneskin....but *not* Mirror Image.</font>[/QUOTE]Stoneskin is just used as an example here, it also applies to other magical effects obviously. I know you corrected me once about Stoneskin (I actually believed the manual and that Stoneskin blocks Magic Missile [img]graemlins/idontagreeatall.gif[/img] ).
However you gotta agree, that it makes no sense. Maybe for Level Drain as we don't know how it is applied, but for bleeding or poisoning from certain weapons. How can a Sword make you bleed without hurting you? Internal bleeding, I get it, but what about an initial loss of HP then? Internal bleeding without internal wounds? And how can you make someone bleed you never actually hit (Mirror Image)?

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As for Level Drain penetrating Mirror Image, though, that's news to me. I've always been safe enough using it a last-ditch measure, and it seems to work--there's always the chance that the Vampire will happen to hit the real you, but that's the chance you take.

That's what I also thought at first, but in my test (Imoen casting Mirror Image, then attacked by a Fledgling Vampire "VAMFLM01")
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• the Vampire level drained on every hit he rolled</font>
• the Vampite level drained on a hit when one of the images disappeared afterwards</font>
• the Vampire level drained without applying any physical damage (i.e. HP loss)</font>

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I'd test it, but in my current games, there aren't any Vampires left....and I'm in no hurry to labor through Imp. Ilyich all over again just yet.

Just spawn one then, just for testing purposes, or are you on a no-reload and don't want to spoil it?
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I would have never thought it works that way, as it seems stupid to me, but it seems that Raistlin is right on this one.

Or, you could always use
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1. The Daystar sword you've just swiped : ie SUNRAY. for some reaon, undead don't like the daytime, obviously not able to get spf 1000 sun cream [img]smile.gif[/img] .
2. You dont mention your party make up - have you a berserker or paladin undead hunter or cleric in your party ? If so , use their innate abilites / spells. Very effective.
3. Any mages in your party ? Then just one word - summons. (Lots of them !!) Always helps in any battle.
4. Other than daystar , as mentioned above, there are many weapons, scrolls that will help you against liches.

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: You might want to keep the protection from undead scrolls for a side quest later on !!

Side note. It is the Barbarian's Enrage, and not the Berserker's Rage that confers Level Drain Protection.

What i did mean whit my *Lich* rest tactic : Rest Cous then hes DEFENSSIV Spells goes away,i didnt mean that he did loose a offensiv spell(He does but anyway).a lich whitout any protection spells is easyer to kill than a lich whit protection spells but whitout offensiv spells.

Not easier, faster ;)
The protection spells go away as well if you just wait long enough (and play the in-out game meanwhile to drain his offensive spells). After he has lost his offensive spells he can do almost no harm.
PfMW or Mantle doesn't last too long anyway and is probably gone already when you attack and stoneskins just need to be peeled off. The in-and-out cheese mainly is for low level parties who can't kill/hit/stop a lich before he unleashes Wail of Banshee/Time Stop/AdHW/Symbol Death or any other nasty spell.