I've read dundee's Party Sorcerer Spell List, but I am a little confused about the choices of 6th level spells.

contingensy - When is that an important spell?

Death spell - creatures with more than 8 HD are imune. Those beneath are easy enough to kill anyway. is it only to slay summons?

Don't get me wrong, I know that dundee is a better player than me [img]smile.gif[/img] ... I am just confused..

Dundee also gives an explanation of why he chose each spell per level, however, I agree about the death spell part, that is not a spell I'd use. I believe it can also kill your party members, including you. It's not a spell that I'd use. However, contingency is a very powerful spell. Say you are in the thick of battle and are nearly dead, you just put a stoneskin and a protection from magical weapons in your contingency, and there you have it! You can take a few hits with out taking damage, and also become more resistant to attacks from some magical weapons. There are some many nice combos you can put in there.

urm...death spell is incredibly useful and fun....

it will NOT harm your own party, and you can use it to dispose of goblins and other fodder, including umber hulks and another plot crucial encounter enemy...

and it will instantly kill summons, very important in tactics mod...

contingency is only ONE spell...and yes its incredibly useful...however its debatable whether a sorceror should really have them...chain contingency tends to be much more useful for a sorceror, since its more useful to obliterate an enemy with a chain than it is to raise protection from magic weapons, since you got tanks and such for this...

however, a cleric mage, contingency becomes your friend!!! contingency heal at 50% hp is wonderful...contingency free action on helpless, or chaotic commands on helpless is incredibly powerful and saves your bacon lots...

now i personally always take contingency for my sorc...however, there is a school of thought that a sorc only needs spell trigger and chain contingency...only carry the best two macro spells, and fill up the rest with destruction spells...

[ 10-17-2003, 11:36 PM: Message edited by: Userunfriendly ]

I would say take Spell Sequencer as well as Spell Trigger. You can have both active at the same time, and Spell Sequencers can be filled with those defensive spells that are lower level and you don't want to bother to put in your Contingency/Spell Trigger.

As for Contingency- If you're in a solo game, then yes, I would recommend you taking it. However, if you're in a party game, I don't really see the point of it. If you're taking damage from whatever source, I would just hit that source with my archer(s), to hopefully draw some attention away from the Sorcerer, who immediately casts Stoneskin/Mirror Skin/whatever. While Contingency will save your bacon sometimes, it really doesn't hold up to the other spells at level 6.

<font color=gold>
Woooww!!! Dude! What have you been smoking? Did you actually ever used the spell or read the description??

Picture this: Solo sorcerer faces 35 umber hulks! What does he do? Deathspell! 99.999 kobolds? Deathspell! Spiders? Deathspell!

Deathspell is one kickass handy-dandy, tax-free spell my friend :D
</font>

oh yeah...solo sorc NEEDS contingency...because it can cast while paused, its got the same wonderful cheesyness of its mandatory big brother, chain contingency...actually dundee is right, a solo sorc needs all of the macro spells...here are some fun things to do...

chain contingency...(target self OR nearest enemy)
remove magic, and abi dahzim/abi dahzim...(this will end most lich fights, nasty encounters...best of all, this is safe to cast on yourself!!!)

spell trigger(cast on self)...remove magic, sunfire, sunfire...
(the user's special variant, totally safe to use!!!) sunfire, delay blast fireball, delay blast fireball...

spell trigger (cast on target)lower resistance, lower resistance, malison
(have this and the chain above will settle most dragon fights...)

contingency...sunfire

spell sequencer...(cast on self) after casting protection from magic energy...skulltrap, skulltrap, skulltrap...the dreaded skullfire combination...

cast on target...breach, flame arrow, flamearrow...

minor sequencer..cast on self...resist fear, mirror image..
cast on target..spook, chromatic orb...

[ 10-12-2003, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: Userunfriendly ]

Having both Contingencies will add immeasurably to your spellcasting abilities. Being able to cast 3 Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting + PfMagical Weapons + Time Stop(or PRATI if you wish to overkill) at the same time for your first casting is invaluable.

Chain Contingency for the initial offense (deadly if they do not have spell protections)
Contingency for defense to prevent spell failure (Mislead is an alternative choice)
Time Stop for the kill (if the CC-Bomb does not do them in)

Maybe for "minor" battles, you will not feel the urge or need to use lesser spell sequencers/contingencies, but for major battles, they can prove to be worth their weight in gold.

Death Spell is so useful I am at a loss to start explaining why it is so. To summarise the usefulness of it, consider this.

Most enemies in BG2 have less than 8HD. The only thing that will save their arse from Death Spell is Magic Resistance, of which it is also very uncommon. If you are not using Death Spell often, then it can only mean you did not understand when to use it. Fret not though, most players do not.

The most crucial thing Death Spell can do though, is its' ability to slay all summons (note, summoned creatures, not gated ones) without question. Instead of wasting rounds trying to chop-suey through them (rounds which the enemy can spend chipping away at you, rounds in which your protections will wear out), you can simply dispel them ALL with a spell. Nifty.

<font color=gold>
Woooww!!! Dude! What have you been smoking? Did you actually ever used the spell or read the description??

Picture this: Solo sorcerer faces 35 umber hulks! What does he do? Deathspell! 99.999 kobolds? Deathspell! Spiders? Deathspell!

Deathspell is one kickass handy-dandy, tax-free spell my friend :D
</font> </font>[/QUOTE]I must be thinking of the wrong spell. I remember fighting a lich once and he cast some sort of death spell I think, and the spell killed him before I even got within fighting range of them. It was actually kinda funny, I had just entered through a doorway, the lich casts a spell on me, and then he's dead before I even start fighting :D
I had thought it was the Death Spell, so it seems like I was thinking about the wrong spell.

You might be thinking Death Fog. Did it have a billowing cloud type animation, similar to Cloudkill, yet different? Or some spell of similar nature?

I'm curious, Dundee, why you didn't choose Improved Haste in your level 6 picks for a party sorcerer. It greatly improves the effectiveness of your warriors. It's so powerful that I just have to cast that spell, and put on the Agressive script for all of my warriors, and the enemies just fall down. I mean, Remove Magic and Breach, then I usually don't even get to see the summons before they fall. Then, if you're really feeling evil, cast Regeneration on the most heavily injured ones. Sure, if you only have 1 Sorcerer, you might not use it, but even if you have 3 frontliners and 2 Mages, those 2 Mages can easily Improved Haste each one twice over.

I loathe wasting time casting spells that buff individuals (save for self-protection for obvious reasons). I understand the potential of Improved Haste, but I prefer quick fights, and having to spend time casting so many spells is not to my liking when the job can be easily done faster.

Improved Haste works better in smaller parties and solos, IMHO.

It is also due to my playstyle. Most people use their spellcasters to assist their tanks. I am the opposite. My tanks hug onto the enemies' legs so that my spellcasters can unleash unholy Hell upon their foes.

So spells that prolong my tanks' lives are attractive. Spells that improve their killing ability is redundant in my parties, because they are not my main damage dealers.

Hence why I stress so much that my spell lists are not the only ways to play Sorcerers.

probably incindiary cloud...deathfog does sucky damage, its best chosen as an alternate to death spell, for summons disposal and for the player who wants an additional damage over time spell rather than the much more useful cousin, deathspell...

i'd have to completely disagree about the usefulness of improved haste...

korgan+kundane+axe of unyielding+improved haste+enrage=dead anything...

using a warrior with 3 stars in dual wield, and at least specialization in the main hand weapon, high mastery of course is better...and equipping a weapon like kundane, belm or the scarlet ninja to in the offhand, with improved haste will give you at least 6-8 attacks per round...give them the gauntlets of weapon mastery, and I've gotten 9 attacks per round...improved haste, good skills and dual wield gives you a LONG duration greater whirlwind, very early in the game...sure its a pain to cast on each fighter before combat, but it makes a party's tanks so much more effective...

blasting foes apart with sorcery is fun, but not everything can be handled by spells...lots of highly magic resistant foes need a good bash...like some evil gits in the tactics mod and improved battles...

Magic Resistance is not an issue to a well-played Sorcerer (or Mage for that matter). ;) In fact, it is the Sorcerer that has the easiest time with Tactics and Improved battles, simply because arcane magic is very potent in BG2.

It is true that raw melee can be brutal, but the same can be said of magic. ;) As I said earlier, depends on your playstyle. For example... do you know you can potentially clear a whole map of hostiles by simply casting two spells (or one if you are willing to gamble)?

<font color=gold>
With 'map': I hope you mean only the current gamescreen, right? Right?! [img]tongue.gif[/img] If not: you got me there d00d .... [img]graemlins/uhoh2.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img]

P.S. this would mean you could also, potentially, finish the -<font color=#3D2F1B>Ritual</font>- with 2 spells?
</font>

[ 10-14-2003, 05:20 AM: Message edited by: Zuvio ]

of course!!!

http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/cheese_guide.zip

i gave you full credit in the guide...

but there are certain encounters, like the lich in the docks, and the kangy guards where the best solutions are improved haste and azuredge...

quick blasting undead with ranged disrupting weapons, the improved azuredge is a way to cheese quite a few really evil encounters...

and of course ascention favors the melee heavy party, improved irenicus can be done on pure spell power, but it helps to melee...


i completely agree that sorcerors rule...my latest hacked version casts cleric and druid spells...and i too usually tend to end most battles with catacysmic magical showstoppers...

but i still love improved haste... ;)

<font color=gold>
With 'map': I hope you mean only the current gamescreen, right? Right?! [img]tongue.gif[/img] If not: you got me there d00d .... [img]graemlins/uhoh2.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img]

P.S. this would mean you could also, potentially, finish the -<font color=#3D2F1B>Ritual</font>- with 2 spells?
</font> </font>[/QUOTE]map only...its the 9th level spell "wish"....

see the link for my guide... ;)

oh yeah...yes you could...

actually i get a lot more fun out of doing that place with g deathblow...unsporting, and very unfair, and utterly cheesy, but since i invented that cheese, i have to use it... ;)

[ 10-14-2003, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: Userunfriendly ]

here is another fun fun fun idea...speaking of magic resistance, one of the options in the wish spell SETS magic resistance to 40% for the map...if you get that, and the breach, and abi wish options, you can finish off dragons...like the improved abzegail encounter in tob...you know, dundee, after looking at wish spell extensively, i've come to the conclusion that EVERY single time you cast wish, you get at least one good option, and frequently more than one...you just have to know how to use them... ;)

well, thanks for the replies. I am still a bit undecided though. Until now I've taken improved haste and PFME. Perhaps I'll take death spell next... Allthough I still have problems picturing 35 umber hulks or 99999 kobolds in the same battle...

<font color=gold>
Well, this takes root in another thread. Don't worry, there aren't actually that many enemies present in the game [img]tongue.gif[/img]
</font>

true, but at least a couple of places the umber hulks were holding a convention...

you know...my sister got bit by an umber hulk once...

yah! is true, she was vacationing in the underdark, where you can see many scenic stalagmites, and mushrooms...

another thing to make your choices harder...level 6 is the highest level you can put into a spell trigger, so you really should carry chained lightning...and if you're a sorceror, you have no buisness running around without protection from magic weapons...you need true sight if you don't have keldorn or another spell caster...


you didn't want to hear all that, did you... ;)

Why Chain Lightning? Sure, it's initial damage is okay, but then the subsequent damages... aren't that good. =/ 20d6, IIRC for the first shot, and 10d6 for the others. 10d6 is like a Fireball that doesn't hit friendlies, and that little radius that it actually hits isn't all that big either.

IMO, I would use the macro spells for quick de-buffing of enemies, not for the damage. Unless you're using Sunfire or somesuch, you're not going to be doing all that much damage, compared to the damage that your party can dish out in one round using their weapons.

Of course, I'm going to take flak for this, but other than the 2x MM and the 3xSunfire/Skull Trap, I really don't use a Spell Trigger/Sequencer for damaging. You'd be surprised how easy Dragons are after you hit them with a Spell Trigger with 2 x Lower Resistance and 1 x Greater Malison, and a followup with a Spell Sequencer of 3 x Slow. More likely than not, two Slows will connect, one negating his Haste, the other Slow'ing him for real. Same goes for virtually everything else; if they're bunched up, Slow them and let the fighters go after them. They're easy meat.

I've always liked chained lightning...immunity to electricity used to be quite rare, until tactics and its stacked protection from energy, and i used chained lighting a lot to thin out hordes of enemies...and i wanted a destruction spell at that level so i could chain destruction spells...and cone of cold, a wonderful spell, destroyed loot...

but i do agree that the most impressive pure destuction spell is sunfire, or abi dahzim...

Hmm i would say that its NO Creature in the game that cant be killed by a solo sorceres.Golems : 2 lower resistanse and a greater malison and a *kill spell* (Finger of death,Dissingret,Flesh to stone)*OR* some damage spells.Dragons : The lower res,malison spell trigger,and then hes magic resistanse is gone and you can kill him whit spells.(The easiest way is to Femblemind him).

Monty python and the holy grail.... he he he