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OPINION: (A very widely held opinion, but still just an opinion.) <u>Some Items Are Overpowered</u>. An example of this would be the Flail of Ages, which, in addition to its very handy +3 enchantment and multiple types of Elemental damage (which bypasses Stoneskin and causes Spell Disruption), also has the ability to Slow the victim, without allowing a Saving Throw OR checking for Magic Resistance. In addition, this Slow effect is <u>cumulative</u>, which means that a Slowed creature can be Slowed again, and take another set of +4 penalties to its THAC0 and AC, and even--get this--have its Speed Factor set higher than 10, meaning it cannot make any attacks at all.
OPINION: <u>Some Items Are Underpowered</u>. So underpowered that you would never seriously consider using them--this is especially true for items that can only be attained after having done something else. For instance, the mace called "Ardulia's Fall" is the Quest Reward for a long, complex, and difficult quest, which includes a large hive full of Beholderkin. After that grueling endeavor, you are "rewarded" with a +1 weapon that can Slow its victim for about 1 round, IF the victim fails their Save, and they get a bonus to their Save. Chance that a party strong enough to beat the quest will actually use Ardulia's Fall: Slim to None. OPINION: <u>Some Items Were Just Plain Implemented Wrong</u>. Consider the Frostreaver Axe: Its description states that it was the favored weapon of a Frost Giant. This would imply a weapon of considerable size, as Giants tend to prefer tools with a good, weighty heft to them. After all, Joril's Dagger was only a Dagger to Joril, but is a Two-Handed Sword to a Human. Why, then, can Frostreaver be held in one hand, and indeed be Dual-Wielded, and by Halflings at that? <center>-----------------------------------------------------------</center> Please list whatever items in the game that *YOU* consider to be A) Overpowered / cheesy / munchkin B) Underpowered / in need of something to make them more noticed or useful C) In need of some changes, but nothing that really makes the item drastically weaker <u>or</u> stronger Please don't list any MOD items, such as Sanchuudoku. That's the MOD designer's business, not mine. Also, if you want to name any ToB items, please use invisible text (The colors are #3D2F1B for the darker posts, and #44341D for the lighter ones), even if it's an upgrade of an SoA item, such as (<font color=3d2f1b>Carsomyr+6</font>). An "Item-Balancing" MOD will eventually come out of this, but for now I've got other things on my plate, so I'm just taking a poll. |
We need a good long sword and bastard sword and short sword. For those common weapons, you would have expected some more of them with higher enchantments (common is +2... come on...) and with more special abilities... All those bastards swords are +2 and take time to be found, long swords are just not fun to play until ToB and short swords... The one with Free Action is nice, but we need a good one of +3...
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I'm not talking about creating new items, but editing existing ones. For instance, you mention the lack of noteworthy Short Swords and Bastard Swords in the early part of the game--you might take that same sentiment, and use it to nominate the Short Sword of Backstabbing and Kondar as items that could stand to be improved. (Or is it "Krondar"?)
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<span style="color: lightblue">I remember reading a while back that someone has found a way to use multiple .EFF files on an item, depending on who's wielding it. This may help rebalance things like the Short Sword of Backstabbing, the Staff of the Magi, Cleric's Staff, and Carsomyr by making them mundane weapons for everyone but their target classes - but in the hands of the target class, they become truly legendary.
CFury - that stun is just too much. An enchanted Katana that can do elemental damage should be powerful enough. The Silver Sword's kill effect works on too many things... you shouldn't be able to use a sharpened sword to lop the head off anything bigger than yourself. Let alone dragons and giants which are meant to be atleast 10 times bigger than you. The number of katanas in the game should be toned down. Alot. Change all of the unenchanted ones to Ninja-Tos or something, aswell as some of the enchanted ones - like the Katana + 1 you get fairly early on (forget where, though). Robe of Vecna - change it down to reduce casting time by *2* or something. Daystar/Mace of Disruption - while it's a good idea to have them guarded by undead (guard with your life that which can kill you easily), make it so they can't be used against their guardians. The Wave/Silver Sword/Equaliser/Multiple other things - make atleast one of the pieces usable *before* the upgrade... it doesn't make too much sense to find a piece of a weapon that has been carried around by alot of people since the weapon broke, when the bits of it are plain useless. "I found a sword blade... it's absolutely useless by itself, but I'll keep it anyway because it's realy valuable for some reason" And finally, there are just too many enchanted items lying round... especially in TOB. To not bother picking up an item because it is only +2 is a good sign of this. |
I think the Mauler's Arm is a little underpowered. I like that it gives you 18 STR but then who wants to use a weapon that does nothing else. Maybe it could have an effect or do some elemental damage.
And why do we have arrows that do fire, acid, poison, cold, and dispel and bolts that do lightning, poison, fire(crossbow effect), and stunning but only bullets that do fire damage(sunstone). Something should be done to beef up a sling or some new bullets made. That's just my two cents. |
Flail of Ages: You could make it a 50% chance, but no penalty to Saving Throw, and MR stops it.
CF: Lower the chance to 33% for Stun, and it should be all right. Come on... I know that some people are in favor of killing the Stun completely, but the main problem is the fact taht it can hit every single time for a Stun. Now, there's a 1/3 chance of it. SotM: I say make it cursed. Now, you're going to make yourself visible, as well as cast Remove Curse every single freaking time you use it (if you want to blink using it, that is)! LennonCook: Why tone down the unenchanted Katanas? I think that they're fine. Sure, they might do 1d10 damage, while everything else does 2d4 or something, but that's nothing too big. There should be a point for using Katanas other than for CF. |
A) I definately think that the Crom Faeyr could be toned down...I understand being able to kill golems but some of the other "instant kills" (i thin ktrolls is one of them...correct me i'm wrong) could be eliminated.
B)The Lilacor could be a more useful weapon, like maybe having the ability fight on its own for 2 hours every day (it says it has the spirit of its former owner). And the bastard sword +1, +3 vs. Shapechangers...no...i never used this item or would have gotten it in time to kill a "shapechanger" C)I just don't understand why dwarves/halflings/gnomes don't get a penalty or have to use two hands with bastard swords man...come on now, it makes sense |
The biggest overpowered item I found was the shield of balderam?? (the one that reflects back beholder spells) even with the -1 str it is still way to powerful. I used to have a tough time with beholders but now when i encounter them I just retreat everyone from the area but my charter with the shield and let them kill themselves.
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most non-magical Katana's should be replaced with Wakizashi's, the ninja-to is a very rare weapon used only by the ninja, and even they disguise it as a wakizashi to avoid the suspicion that would follow if they were wielding the trademark weapon of an assassin/thief/spy/etc. [ 07-21-2003, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Morgeruat ] |
I think Ravager(ToB Item) should be toned down.
I mean i was having the ToB NPC(or almost anyone else for that matter) and everything was just too damn easy... I think most of the weapons in ToB in general are overpowerd but with Ascension(or without it) the ToB Final Boss is though...like hell |
Item that is overpowered: Staff of the Magi. Ability to turn invisible when equipped? What this means is that, except for area effect spells, you're completely immune to targeted spells. Even with the spell true seeing casted, you can switch to SOTM just the instant an enemy target a spell towards you for a few seconds of invisibility.
Item that is underpowered: Mace of Disruption +2. After you gone through all the subtlety into deceiving Sir Sarles to accept the fake illithium ores, only to find out that the enchantment of the Mace adds only 1 to the THACO, with all the saves vs death remained the same. Item(s) that is(are) implemented wrong:<font color="#44341D">The full plate mails that Fire Giants wear in TOB</font>. Would you not be astonished to discover that the same set of plate mail that was once wore by a fire giant also fits your character? [ 07-21-2003, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: theholyavenger ] |
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I also think that Improved Human flesh is overpowerd to a certain degree. |
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First of all, I'm not going to discuss "unrealistic", only overpowered and underpowered. That's just way too nebulous territory for me to get into (though I'm sure others will be up to the challenge). I'll just say this: if the item is balanced, I'd rather change the name/backstory than change the item and still try to come up with a balanced version of it.
Underpowered: Staff of the Woodlands. Near the end of SOA to get a +4 Druid-only staff, when you can buy a vanilla +4 staff at the Adventurer's mart in Chapter 2, and I understand there's a certain very powerful upgradable +4 staff in TOB that is findable quite soon which immediately obsoletes any combat-use you might have for the Staff of the Woodlands. Recommendation: Don't improve its combat abilities, which is pretty much a lost cause. Instead, give it some additional defensive and spellcasting type bonuses... make it sort of a less "broken" Staff of the Magi for Druids. (EX: +1 spell/lvl, -2 to casting time, +2 to saves, +25% elemental resistance.) Keep it Druid only. Cleric Staff +3: While we're at it, let's make this into a nice spellcasting bonus staff for Clerics instead of a vanilla Staff +3. (EX: +1 spell/lvl for levels 3-5, -1 to casting time, Prot vs Evil 10' radius and negative plane protection while equipped, 2 charges of Heal/day). You'd have to make a tougher encounter for it, but it would be a fine addition to the game. Sling of Avoreen, Arla's Dragonsbane: Someone mentioned slings were underpowered and that bullets lack variety. I'd suggest these two as sling candidates to be buffed up. Dragonsbane should get a bonus vs dragons... nothing overpowering, say extra +3 to hit, double damage and immunity to fear ala Dragonslayer. Bone Club +2 / +3 vs undead: Should be a little more interesting considering how you get it, and with clubs being so underpowered in general. Nothing drastic, maybe +3 / +5 vs undead with a chance to slay skeletons and bone golems. Magic armor / ring of protection interaction. Someone mentioned at one point that the actual 2nd ed AD&D ruling for rings of protection combined with magic was that you would get the AC bonus of whichever is highest, and always get the save bonus of the ring. (So Leather +2 worn with Ring of Protection +1 would still be AC6, no AC bonus from ring, but you'd still get +1 bonus to saves, and if it was a Ring of Protection +3, you'd get AC5 and +3 to saves.) The reason I mention it here is that without this fix, all magic armor in the game is underpowered. Any SOA fighter will tell you the best armor is unenchanted full plate with a Ring/Cloak of Protection +2, and that's just wrong. Staff Spear: Just needs a little "oomph" to make it more interesting, like the Staff Mace that got bonus damage. Jhor the Bleeder: OK item, just would be nice for it or some other nice +2 Bastard Sword to be available before Chapter 5. That's also where you get the Blade of Searing +3, and that item is actually obtainable in a nice, well-flavored way that I'd rather leave. Malakar: Just picking a +2 katana at random and saying that one should get some kind of elemental damage, maybe +1 electrical would make sense for this sword (literally, lightning reflexes). Hammer of Thunderbolts: Should clearly have electrical damage when you first get it but doesn't. Add +2 or +3 electrical damage, which will make it an excellent quality, but not overpowered, +3 weapon on its own. (Leave Crom Faeyr as is, which has +5 electrical damage.) The Wave, Equalizer: Agreed with someone who commented that one part of these should be usable on its own. Both final products could stand just a tad bit of beefing up too. (Maybe add free action to Wave, and make Equalizer a +4 with an extra +1 or +2 THACO and damage above its listed bonuses.) Overpowered: Staff of Rynn +4. Not sure if you should have access to your first +4 weapon right out of the dungeon (once you scrounge up enough gold). Maybe put it in Trademeet, which would at least require you to set out on (or possibly finish) a quest. Firetooth +3 Throwing Dagger, Boomerang +2 Throwing Dagger. Neither of these are really gamebreaking, but the 2D4 base damage should probably be corrected to the normal 1D4 for a dagger. Leave the +1 APR for throwing I believe that's standard 2nd edition rules for throwing daggers anyway, and if it does mistakenly grant +1 APR in melee, remove that ability. Celestial Fury: I'll let others take this. Flail of Ages: This will be discussed plenty, but I just wanted to make note that I believe its slow ability is actually reduced to 33% in TOB... maybe making that same change in SOA would be adequate. Another suggestion might be to reduce its physical damage to D6+1 instead of D6+4. This would make it similar to Dragon's Breath, which also conveys bonus elemental damage... but at a cost of foregoing the usual bonus physical damage you get. Staff of the Magi: Remove the invisibility (way too abusable the way the game engine works) and spell trap. The rest would still be plenty powerful (as it should be for the battle you have to fight and the work to get to the battle in the first place) but probably not "broken". Helm of Glory, Daystar: No wonder nobody plays clerics... Sunray, one of their most potent spells is freely available on not one, but two items that anyone can use! Mace of Disruption +1 / +2: Actually I think this items is fine to have in the game. I actually like the way it is designed so it is effectively only a Mace +1 / +2 vs non-undead, and can always strike creatures that need +3 / +5 to hit. What I would like is to make it actually a +3 / +5 weapon in all respects, but restrict it to Priests only, since my only real gripe about the weapon is that the upgraded version can make any character immune to level drain, which reduces the value of Priests who can cast Negative Plane Protection. (Which should have longer duration, but that's another topic.) OK in my opinion: Azuredge: This to me should be the one anti-undead weapon not restricted to Priests. (Baldurdashed of course.) Dragonslayer: "Firkragg's joke" would be a better name. This is what I'm going to go after a Dragon with? Actually, pretty well balanced for a +2 weapon. (In answer to one of Six's common thematic complaints about Firkragg's dungeon: Of course a dragon's dungeon is going to have dragonslaying items littered about it... that's what the poor fools who keep trying to kill him come in wearing! Obviously he killed the last people, perhaps the last several people, who came in wearing them... what's to worry about yet another band of hapless adventurers suiting up in that same stuff again?) Crom Faeyr: You sacrifice a LOT to get this, including having to kill a Dragon for what is otherwise a worthless piece of paper, so I think it's about right given what goes into it. Carsomyr: Kids, you killed a dragon to get this, and it's Paladin only. If you think it's too easy a fight, make the fight tougher, not the item less: I think this is about what you should get for killing "one of the most powerful creatures in Faerun". Also its magic resistance, while very high for SOA, doesn't stack. |
Please list whatever items in the game that *YOU* consider to be:
A) Overpowered / cheesy / munchkin --SHIELD OF BALDURAN: [username] was right. The STR penalty is not enough on this item. It's way too freakin' overpowered, but if you're playing a class that can't cast a spell or drink a potion to counter beholder rays (wizard slayers, anyone?), then the shield becomes a necessary evil, just something to throw on when you're around beholders. SUGGESTIONS: Double the price, or make it a medium shield (and lose the +1 AC bonus against missile weapons), or make the ray reflection effect only usable once or twice per day. --DAYSTAR: I think Daystar's perfectly fine on its own. Why does it need to cast spells? (As Klutz put it, replace a cleric?) SUGGESTION: False Dawn once per day, lose all other spellcasting abilities. --AMULET OF POWER: Nice powers. Nice powers for free. When does the side of righteousness have it so good? SUGGESTION: Get this right before Task #3, so you'll have to fight a couple, and appreciate its worth. B) Underpowered / in need of something to make them more noticed or useful --ARDULIA'S FALL: This was mentioned already. SUGGESTION: Have the quest giver hand this item over at the beginning of the quest, have it upgraded to Spell Turning once or twice per day, or maybe even stun on hit with a save bonus for target, and at the end, the quest giver upgrades it to +2/+3. --CLERIC STAFF/MARTIAL STAFF: I agree with Klutz on the Clerical Staff, but the Martial Staff has the same bonus, and pretty much the same availability. SUGGESTIONS: Put some sort of healing or protection charge (Armor of Faith?) on the Clerical Staff, and some sort of attack bonus (Improved Haste?) on the Martial Staff. --RASHAD'S TALON: There's an item that a questgoer can pickpocket near where you can get this, and I think the pickpocketable item is better than this quest reward! SUGGESTIONS: Have the two items switch places, or combine Rashad's Talon with Ras (4 APR on its own), and still keep it a scimitar. C) In need of some changes, but nothing that really makes the item drastically weaker <u>or</u> stronger --SKULLCRUSHER: Gee, wouldn't it have been nice if you had gotten this item BEFORE going on that quest? SUGGESTIONS: Give it beforehand, or have it drop as a reward. And my only ToB suggestion...(highlight) ***<font color=#3D2F1B>Why wait for Hindo's Doom when you can buy Yamato from the Tankard Tree? Both are +4 katanas. Solution: Make Hindo's +5, or +4 with a 1% chance of casting Energy Drain on target on every hit if a lucky adventurer also carried around the hand of Dace...</font>*** |
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The true means of correcting the Flail of Ages, if you can run these multiple files, is to have a chance of spontaneously generating a party of hostile rakshasa... I don't know how the implementation would work, and suspect it'd be a bugger, but it would put it back in its rightful context -- It's overpowered because the rakshasa WANT IT THAT WAY....
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Fair enough on the thunder vs lightning comment. I was basing the lightning damage off the fact that Crom Faeyr gets the bonus, so it looked to me like the sort of thing that BioWare actually intended to put in to the Hammer of Thunderbolts but was overlooked. Quote:
One more thought on the Flail of Ages. A lot of it's "overpoweredness" would be reduced if the slow affect could simply be made non-cumulative. |
The List So Far (plus a few of my own):
Please list whatever items in the game that *YOU* consider to be A) Overpowered / cheesy / munchkin</font>
- The Save penalty on Azuredge and the MoD could be removed, to allow Undead at least a fighting chance - Drastically reduced damage on Firetooth and Boomerang, thus greatly easing The Archer's Lament - The Shield of Reflection could be changed to simply cast Physical Mirror X times per day - I am unable to think up a way to weaken the Shield of Balduran without changing it entirely....moving this to Section C. B) Underpowered / in need of something to make them more noticed or useful</font>
- The Short Sword of Backstabbing could raise the wielder's Backstab multiplier by 1. (The Rogue Rebalancing MOD already does this--but I'm not satisfied with the way that it moves the SSoB's location, and gives me *2* of them.) - In addition to its current powers, the Wave could add Cold damage to each hit, and grant immunity to ADHW (which supposedly does damage by sucking the moisture from your body). The Wave Blade could become an awkward-to-use Axe, with a +4 enchantment and its offensive powers (slays Efreeti, etc.), and the Shaft could become a Staff+1 with its defensive powers (immune to ADHW, etc). - The Armor of Deep Night is right next to Aeger's Hide+3. AoDN has the <u>same</u> base AC as AH+3, has <u>worse</u> AC Modifiers, has <u>no</u> additional enchantments (in comparison to AH+3's excellent ones, and costs <u>more.</u> - The Club +2/+3 vs. Undead could be allowed to do double damage against Undead, and cast Repulse Undead X/day. C) In need of some changes, but nothing that really makes the item drastically weaker <u>or</u> stronger</font>
- Any item "of Balduran" must be something that a Dwarven sea captain would find so useful that it gets named after him. I don't see him fighting Beholders, somwhow. The Shield might grant immunity to Fear, and cast Slow and Haste, each once per day. (Very handy for ship-to-ship skirmishes.) |
My thoughts for re-balancing some items. This is also taking into account the roleplaying aspects of each weapon. If you read the weapon description, it should make sense.
Eliminate the saving throw bonus for Ardulia's Fall. Maybe also immune to magical slow? I do like the idea of an extra +1 modifier to the Short Sword of Backstabbing. Perhaps also an extra 1d4 damage when backstabbing? This might make it too powerful, but it is a thought. Bastard Sword +1/+3 Vs Shapeshifters. Can cast True Sight 1/day, maybe? So you can see the shapeshifter's true form. The Wave could do extra damage vs. creatures with natural fire attacks (Big Red, etc.) Other than that, I don't really know how much it needs beefing up, really. You could transformm the Equalizer into more of a balance-keeping weapon. Maybe for every level or hit dice over a certain amount, you get +1 to damage? (ridding the universe of the "extreme" powers") Mauler's Arm. Give 18 strength, and if the character has more, +1 strength. Immunity to disease (see item description if you want to know why.) Arla's Dragonsbane. Hmm. Once per day can boost THAC0 by 5, or a bonus vs dragons. Lilarcor. When hit, target must save vs. spells or go berserk (ala shut up you stupid sword!) Staff of the Woodlands. Can shapeshift into Earth Elemental 1x per day. Cast Doom upon hit. Cleric's staff. Adds +1 wis, +1 spell for levels 1-3. What exactly is the Martial Staff +3? If it's the base quarterstaff, no changes really needed. Sling of Arvoreen. Cast Bless once a day. Other than that...not much. The Armour of Deep Night could have bonuses to hide in shadows, or maybe negate any armor penalties to thieving/stealth skills. Maybe the Shield of Balduran could have more of a spell trap like effect, absorbing the initial beholder rays, but thereafter needing a rest (once/day type thing) or make it a castable spell with the shield? Although I do like your suggestion, Six, but how many pirates and sailors have you seen with shields anyway. ;) More likely a trophy of a past conquest. More to come... |
In the Rogue Rebalancing Mod, they changed the short sword of backstabbing to be +5 to THACO (still +3 to damage) if handled by a thief and increased the backstab muliplier by 1 (if used by a thief). Personally, I think that's about right, especially given how difficult Mar Var is to defeat with that mod.
Personally, I think Lilarcor is fine. I believe you get it fairly early in the game and with it's immunity to charm and confusion, I actually gave it to Minsc for a good portion of the game instead of having him use the Sword of Chaos, until we got to much better weapons. Of course, the chance of having an opponent go berserk seems to fit (I'd call that keeping the sword even because making an opponent go berserk could be bad if it's a tank). |
What about the suggestion or making the Hammer of T-Bolts into a throwing hammer (more in line with the PnP version)
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Martial Staff +3: I think it's OK for there to be a plain old Staff +3 in the game (especially if the Staff of Rynn is moved somewhere just a tad less accessible). Whether this should be it, I don't know. If you did want to beef it up, this is actually one weapon where it would make sense to add 1 extra attack per round as a special weapon ability. I've always thought there should be a couple of two-handed weapons that have +1 APR as an ability, as long as they aren't otherwise overpowered. Remember that you can give any one-handed weapon in the game +1 APR simply by dual-wielding it with Belm or Kundane in the off-hand. Rashad's Talon (and Water's Edge): Again, it's OK for there to be a plain old Scimitar +2 (+3) in the game, but I think there's a little room for improvement with both of these. |
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