Something that has been bugging the heck out of me lately is all the loose-ends and unfinished/scrapped quests that Bioware left (or left out) of Shadows of Amn. I think it's time for a mod to patch up these "holes" and help bring some depth and closure to some of the NPC's.

For once, I'm stepping up and am willing to undertake this project. I've bugged all the modders long enough, and I think it's time that I figure out this whole Infinity Engine for myself. What I really need is content advice. I've only played through the game once, so I'm far from an expert.

So, if you guys are willing to help with dialog and/or content suggestions, I'll take care of the dirty work (scripting, packaging, distribution).

Here are some ideas that I've come across so far:
1) Mazzy's redemption of Korgan in ToB
2) The kidnapping of Boo (Minsc's cut quest)
3) Haer'Dalis and the murder implication
4) Haer'Dalis and the summoning wizard
5) Aerie kidnapping and turning into a bird
6) Viconia in the Underdark
7) The Twisted Rune
8 ) The Slavers
9) The bridge district murders
10) The sewer illithids
11) The Roenall plot
12) The Wizard Mekrath
13) Kalah, the circus gnome
14) The red wizard on the docks and the graveyard mystery
15) The Harper imposters
16) Pai'Na and the Spider Bane quest
17) Alva & Tiro at the Crooked Crane
18 ) The Riatavin delegation
19) The black lotus seller at the City Gates
20) The missing lenses of the Rynn Lanthorn
21) Firkraag and his interest in CHARNAME

I'm sure there are many other "incompletes" out there, which I'm hoping you all can help with.

I'm tentatively calling the project "Unfinished Business," but that, like so many other things, is open to suggestions.

(BTW, at present, this mod will NOT add any new kits, areas, recruitable NPC's, or spells. New items will only be offered if they are vital to a quest--don't expect any uber-items)

[ 07-03-2003, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: icelus ]

You should PM Six Of Spades about this, he dealt with quite a few unfinished quests in one of his rather infamous quizes ( with Pcgiant as partner, I'm not forgetting you [img]tongue.gif[/img] )...
Newayz, I'm pretty sure he mentioned a few more unfinished quests and I trust his incredible preciseness ( im choosing words carefully here [img]graemlins/heee.gif[/img] , though I probably misspelled it :D )enough to say that he probably got every single one inconsistency [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 07-02-2003, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: daan ]

when it comes to the Twisted rune stuff...although they'll likely say no you could ask bioware for there plans and the half finished stuff they made. the twisted rune quest was supposed to be one of the largest quests but they didn't have time to finish it before they had to release it so it got cut.

Game d(r)eadlines: EAT ME !!!

Well, I did email David Gaider, actually... He was very nice and pointed me to The Attic forums where he'd posted some of the cut quests, though I already had that info. But he didn't really give me anything of substance. I think he's pretty much moved on from BG2 and is now on the NWN expansions... :(

good luck ;)

22) Connection between the Temple-Sewers Illithids and the Hidden
23) Connection between the Hidden and Lady Jsstev
24) Connection between Lady Jysstev and Uncle Gearhardt
25) What the #*%! was up with Lissa's illness anyway
26) Valygar's quest to avenge Suna Seni
27) Suna Seni's connection to Irenicus(or)Lavok(or)Tolgerias(or)Sion(or)etc, etc.
28) Restore the quest about the missing Clerics, such as Guardian Herolde
29) Kalah: "This wasn't what was supposed to happen! This wasn't what was promised to me!!!" Promised by whom?
30) Montaron's Body (and how you can only find it if you have Jaheira, and after Xzar's dead)

All of these are "Fix what BioWare never finished" ideas. Also possible are:
31) Give Minsc a quest
32) Give Viconia a quest
33) Give Aerie a quest
34) Give Imoen a quest
35) Give Valygar a quest (the Planar Sphere sort-of counts, but not really.)

the mercenaries of riatavin in the bridge district actually do have a quest. it is called "the limited wish adventure". you have to cast limited wish and got wisdom 10 or higher. ask the djinni for a onetime-wish and an adventure you never had before and enjoy !

Yes, but there's also the fellow named "Gont of Riatavin" that you can free from the Imprisonment crystal. He mentions how he was with a party and doesn't know where they are, and goes off to find them. You're not even given the option of mentioning the Mercenaries of Riatavin, nor can you go back to Delosar's and talk to them about Gont.

OK...ouch! LOL! My list keeps doubling...
I'm gonna need help with some of this stuff, as the names aren't ringing a bell.
1) Who/Where are The Hidden?
2) Lady Jysstev/Uncle Gearheart...were they the ones that were housing the artist who needs the illithium?
3) Lissa--Mazzy's sister (never kept Mazzy long enough to do her quest)
4) Suna Seni--ugh...who? I never kept Valygar long enough, either...lol
5) The missing cleric quest--OK...I've never heard of this one before. Do you have any details?
6) Montaron's body--I had Jaheira, and I don't remember anything notable about his body. I remember him being a bird, and then taking the bird to Xzar, and then the Harper assassin showing up and killing Xzar...but I never remember a body...
7) Imprisonment crystal??? AARRGGHH...I REALLY need to play through one more time...grrr

Six--someone mentioned you had some older threads with lots of info on all this...any idea when? or the name of the thread? I'd be eternally grateful [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 07-03-2003, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: icelus ]

1), 2) and 3) When Jan's step daughter gets sick (Lissa is her mother, and she is not sick), Jan's uncle Gerhardt sends you to Lady Jysstev to find a cure. She sends you to the CC sewers, to meet the Hidden, who is a Githyanki. He cures the girl. But that quest is unfinished, Jan should confront that shrimp Vaelag.

7) He thinks of the icosaedar in the Underdark. The thing that has stored souls in it, and you free them to kill them.
I have always thought that that is mere coincidence that both Gont and the party are from Riatavin. Why do you think it should have been connected? (this isn't Seinfeld)
Although it would be nice.

What's up with the men behind TorGal?
He is referring to some kind of assignment he has. From whom?

OK..that's why they didn't ring a bell--Jan is another character I've never used for very long (looks like a Jan/Mazzy/Nalia/Valygar/Korgan party is inevitable...lol). As for the second part, I do remember that now. He was one of the only ones you didn't have to kill, right? I think you're right about it being a coincidence. IIRC, they were going after the drow...

The only reason I listed the Riatavin mercenaries to begin with is because, reading in one of the D&D handbooks, it mentions that Riatavin, a city in Amn, is trying to leave and join the nation of Tethyr. I thought perhaps they were involved with the Twisted Rune (which has strong ties to the nobility in Calimshan and Tethyr), who were involved with the slaver and the Roenalls. Just a working theory, of course ;)

SPOILER
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You find this out if you play through the fighter/barbarian/monk stronghold. It is Roenall. Thus, this is already addressed. However, this was supposed to link to the Slavers/Twisted Rune, but they took that out.

Are you *sure* that a definite tie to Roenall exits? The only reason I ask is because there was a little controversy at another forum as to who Torgal is actually working for. Several members there did not think that Torgal was working for Roenall at all...

Email recieved, icelus....

Here's my prioritization plan for all the misbegotten loose ends lying around:

1) Give Jaheira a Quest and a Romance. Judging by the fact that this hasn't been fixed yet, a complete rewrite may be neccessary.

2) Clear up the entire "de'Arnise--TorGal--Roenall--Slave Ship--Baron Ployer (former slaver, he lives right next door, how could he <u>not</u> be involved)--Slave Lords--Twisted Rune" quest array, with clues tying each. Additional clues and links if Nalia/Jaheira are in the party.

3) Clear up the entire "Temple Sewers Illithids--the Hidden--Lady Jysstev--Uncle Gearhardt--Lissa's daughter--Vaelag" quest array, with clues tying each.
To clear up some misconceptions:
<u>The Hidden</u>: A high-ranking Illithid, mentioned in the Temple Sewers, but only seen during Jan's Quest. (Vedran said that he was a Githyanki, but actually a couple of Gith are trying to <u>kill</u> the Hidden.)
<u>Lady Jysstev</u>: Appears to be a member of some cult led by the Hidden. As the Hidden's plans are to destroy and dominate the human city, and Lady Jysstev enjoys the benfits of being of very high rank in such a city (her husband is one of the Council of Six, but don't tell anybody), this seems very unlikely.
<u>Uncle Gearhardt</u>: For whatever stupid reason, he knows that Lady Jysstev has links to the Hidden.
<u>Lissa</u>: Lissa is Jan's old girlfriend, and Vedran was right, it's her daughter that develops a crippling mental illness. (I've forgotten the kid's name.) Ths girl is not Jan's stepdaughter, but if things turned out they way they should have, she soon would be.
<u>Vaelag</u>: A useless rat-bastard Evil Gnome with ties to the Shadow Thieves and every other corrupt organization in town--in other words, 80% of Athkatla. Got to satisfy part of his desire to taint and corrupt innocence by marrying Lissa, and is implicated as being the cause of the mental disease in Lissa's (and his) daughter.
My suggestions for this particular quest array: The Hidden is the leader of an advance party of Illithids, on a mission to consume all the minds in Athkatla. They plan to accomplish this by dominating a few key people to keep the panic under control, and systematically decimating the rest of the population. This will provide the Illithids the power that they need to destroy an entrenched Hive of Beholders. But they lack the resources to pull off such a stunt alone, and so the Hidden has turned to an unlikely ally: The Drow. Since the Drow are well acquainted with surface raids, he has sent some of his people to Ust Natha to negotiate a treaty (which we already see them doing on one of the city platforms), in which the Drow will dig a tunnel from the Underdark directly to the Hidden's base in Athkatla. This will provide the Drow with a vast new source of wealth and slaves, the Illithid with new minds to consume, and as a bonus, both races have large population centers at the Underdark end of the tunnel, thus nearly eliminating the problem of being outnumbered. (The Hidden's goal of negotiation suffered a serious setback with Phaere's capture: This suggests that the Master Brain in the Underdark knew nothing of this bold plan, suggesting in turn that the Hidden is from some other Illithid city and under some other Master Brain.)
As for the Jan/Lissa/Vaelag side of the quests, I'd like them to have no connection whatsoever with this Illithid/Drow plot. (Uncle Gearhardt: "Oh, the little girl's got some brain problem, huh? Tell you what, why don't you sit her right down in front of a Mind Flayer and he'll fix her right up.") The Jysstevs can be left right out of it, too--I don't think a single person would mind. Just a nice, little quest: After jumping through verbal hoops for Uncle Gearhardt, he'll mention that his old pal Kreel at the Temple of Lathander read a few good books on Psionics before becoming a Priest. Going back upstairs, you re-recruit Jan, take the kid (Inventory item) with you, and toddle off to the Temple. One Restoration later, the girl has most of her memory back: The last thing she remembers is her dad (Vaelag) making her some oatmeal--it smelled weird, and tasted really bad. He got mad that she didn't like his cooking, so she had to eat some, and then she remembers that everything just sort of went black. This, of course, is enough justification for Jan to go disembowel Vaelag, although some additional evidence will be required in order to placate Lissa; a book of psionicists' curses and an Antidote to whatever it was that Vaelag put in her oatmeal will do the trick quite nicely. (At this time, however, I have no idea WHY Vaelag would do such a thing, but I'm sure a reasonable motive can be found.) Due to Vaelag's links with the Shadow Thieves, killing him could mean complications if one has the Thief stronghold or sided with the Shadow Thieves, not to mention Jan's Epilogue.
A fringe benefit of rewriting this quest array is that the location of the Sewer Key can be made MUCH more logical--on the corpse of one of the Illithids in Ust Natha, perhaps? That would tie in perfectly, ensuring that the Temple Sewers Illithids can't be dealt with until Chapter 6, and ensuring that the party has already been through the Underdark would make the quest much easier to write.

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Suna Seni is the leader (well, the only one with a name, anyway) of a party of Slavers that Waylay you very early in the game. (They're the ones that drop Arbane.) According to stuff that never made it into the game, she was once Valygar's sweetie, but now works for a Mage, possibly against her will. (Geas, anyone?) Judging that she's with a group of slavers, that Mage is likely either Sion or Shangalar. It actually IS possible to have Valygar in your party before getting Waylaid by Suna, but they show no signs of recognizing each other at all. What DOES show up in the game is a banter between Valygar and Cernd, in which Valygar is metaphorically gritting his teeth in anticipation of killing the Mage who "killed Suna without a moment's thought." This was mentioned in my "2nd edition of the Grat, Big, Pain-in-the-Butt, Shadows of Amn Trivia Quiz" thread.

The "missing Priest of Helm, Guardian Herolde" is mentioned in that thread as well.

If you do Xzar's quest and enter the Harper compound, one of the chests on the second floor contains a low-level scroll and a few Darts+1. After taking Xzar the Harper Bird, the entrance is Locked again, so the only (legal) ways back into the Harper Hold are to have Jaheira confront Galvarey, or to leave somebody standing right in the doorway (so they can't shut it) before taking the Bird to Xzar. Anyway, once you're back inside, go take a look in that chest again--and there's Monty's Body. (No correction is required on this particular issue, I'll take care of it myself with the Montaron MOD.)

True, there may be no real connection between Gont and the Mercenaries, but it would have been nice to at least have the conversation option of mentioning one to the other.

I have never seen a concrete link between the Roenalls and the "Stronger" that TorGal mentions. Perhaps Arnel's Nalia Romance MOD adds more detail, but I never played it long enough to find out--too buggy for me.

Six wrote a book!

This may be a little off topic, but...
Is something also supposed to happen to Jaheira after doing Xzar's quest? Something like... Her getting kidnapped? Or maybe I'm just st00pid and confused... [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

I apologise for those incorrect information I brought out [img]graemlins/dropatear.gif[/img] . It will not happen again (yeah, right).

I agree that Jan-Lissa-Jysstev quest should not intermix with Illithid plot too much, but the Hidden should still be the one who cures the girl. Or perhaps not, because that would imply that Flayers are good, which is untrue if they want to enslave the city.

But the whole story with drow, beholders and mind flayers...

While there are Illithid emissaries in Ust Natha, that doesn't mean that they are allies. Drow generally don't like nor trust MFs, and they would have to be really motivated to step in such an alliance ("Have them watched at all times.").
Yes, those emissaries and Flayers in Athkatla could be from another MF lair, but why would this MF lair work against them?
(Unless... Phaere was the safe-guard that the drow will keep their side of the bargain, and she was transported from that other MF lair to the one near Ust Natha. But her escort was waylaid by Solaufein and the protagonist, and she was freed.
But why would drow find her so valuable to let MFs blackmail them?)

The drow are currently allied with Irenicus, warring with surface elves. I don't think that they would gladly engage with two kingdoms at the same time. Drow are powerful, but not reckless.
Neither they like to undertake extended surface conquests, because they feel disoriented outside. They are not trained to fight in the open area, they fight room by room, cave by cave.

That entrenched beholders you speak of, do you mean the Unseeing Eye? Or those in Underdark?

Why would the drow dig the tunnel? Couldn't umber hulks do that?

I do. The girl found some evidence about Vaelag's activities (heard him order someone killed, for instance), and she had to be eliminated. Killing her would be hard to explain, so he decided to lobotomise her.
Or she fell into coma herself because that knowledge was to much for her to take.

Something like: [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]
Hey, we've seen a fellow named Gont that is from Riatavin, too. Do you know him?
No.

BTW, Six, why do you cope with Ranchoweb? It proved that it can't be trusted to. Can't you just upload your image at your site? If no, I could host it.

[ 07-05-2003, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: Vedran ]

you can 'heal' the feebleminded mage, the unable to speak one, and get a nice sword as reward from him instead of some spells. this way you have to do 3 fights only and got 3 peaceful solutions.

Ye st00pid and confused one, you're getting her Romance mixed up with her Quest. The two are indeed separate--people have taken Jaheira into their party <u>without</u> Romancing her, yes it does happen. Both her quest and her romance are severely bugged, of course.

Jan and his Uncle may both be insane, but I don't think they're insane enough to get all cuddly-cuddly with a Mind Flayer. The only connection between the "Gnome Quest" and the "Illithid Quest" that I think I could stomach would be the Hidden giving you the cure <u>by force</u>. I think something like "Tell us what to do and we won't kill you" makes a lot more sense than "We ran all over the whole tamn town--twice--and killed a couple of stupid Githyanki for you, now cure the girl."

You're right about the Drow/Illithid complications that you bring up, Vedran. Although the fact that the Drow have allowed a pair of Illithid into Ust Natha in the first place clearly shows that the Illithid have something that the Drow are very interested in. Perhaps if, instead of an actual alliance with the Drow, the Illithid only want permission to travel through the Underdark without being attacked by Drow. That would save a huge amount of digging time, even for Umber Hulks. In exchange for free passage, the Illithids could offer the Drow X percent of the loot/slaves. As for the Hidden declaring war on the Unseeing Eye--why not? They're certainly close enough, and there IS an artifact of great power that they would both conveivably want.

As for Ranchoweb, I put up with it out of sheer laziness. If you'd host it for me, that'd be great, because the Geocities and Ironworks servers do <u>not</u> like each other: I can provide links to my webpages on Geocities, but I can't post the images themselves. Quite annoying. Shall I PM thee?

Have you done this yourself, or only heard about it? From what I recall, he starts a conversation with you as soon as you're in his sight range, and there's no opportunity to cast a spell while you're in conversation mode.

Here ya go:
http://www.sighost.us/members/Zvijer/SixSig.jpg
Now you must be careful not to offend me, because you don't know what I can put on the end of that link... [img]graemlins/evillaughter2.gif[/img]

I still think that Phaere's abduction and an inimical MF lair are a pretty big obstacle to any treaty. If Phaere wasn't connected to the matron mother Ardulace, it could be possible, but this way...
You'd just have to think all this through again, won't you?

MF emissaries could be from the Hidden, trying to break the enmity. But they could be local ones, who want to negotiate the terms for returning Phaere.

Ah, and Raevilin Strathi (UDTRAP02) can indeed be healed. All praise the Infinity Explorer user-friendliness.

[ 07-07-2003, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: Vedran ]

Woohoo! Thanks, Vedran! But it seems that Ziroc has put yet another annoying restriction on us--when I updated my signature, I was notified that it was "too long." Too long, my ass. I had to chop off "New and Improved" and "Sorry about the popup ads" to get the thing past the filter. Time for a request to Ziroc.....

I agree, the "Phaere ambush" is a stumbling block for any Drow/Mind Flayer plot, and must be taken into account in designing any quest such as the one I've outlined. Still, it's not like it's anything that WE created: Both the MF emissaries in Ust Natha and the Phaere ambush were in the original game, so BioWare gets all the credit for opening this particular can of worms.

What worries me is the Unseeing Eye connection: I like the idea of the Hidden wanting to stage a blitzkrieg against the Unseeing Eye, but the chapter disparity poses a problem: If you can't enter the Temple Sewers Illithid lair until Chapter 6, how would the Hidden react to your already having dealt with the Unseeing Eye yourself, in Chapter 3? Which leads to 3 alternatives:</font>

• No Unseeing Eye until Chapter 6 -> No Keldorn until Chapter 6 = Bad.</font>
• Yes, Keldorn in Chapter 2, but no Gauntlets until Chapter 6 = Equally Bad.</font>
• Keldorn, Gauntlets, and most of Unseeing Eye in Chapter 2, but you can't kill the Eye yourself until Chapter 6 = Tolerable, but incredibly awkward.</font>

You'd have to rewrite major section of the U.E. quest, and might the Hidden actually reward you? Not likely.

As for Raevilin Strathi, I'm quite surprised at this whole thing, especially if he rewards you with a sword, since he doesn't drop one when you kill him.

A nitpick: there can't be more than one alternative, because alter (lat.) = second. Alternative would literally mean second-born.

You begin with the conception that the key is in MF lair downunder. That implies friendship between Hidden and them.
Fourth option:
move the key to another location, say:
-Jan's quest: go find the Hidden and force him to cure the girl, and you somehow get the key from him. Perhaps he begins to like you (heh).
-We put few of MFs anywhere (in the sewers, Graveyard, etc)

Fifth option:
move the gauntlets.

Something about Illithid way of life:

Haven't posted here in awhile...sorry 'bout that... :(

Anyway, I just wanted to say that production on this mod is well underway. So far, one quest is completely finished (Pai'Na's Spider Bane quest), and four more are nearing completion (Boo's kidnapping, the missing lenses of the Rhynn Lanthorn, Gorje Hilldark and the extended illithium quest, and the restoration of the Suna Seni/Valygar relationship).

I will hopefully be able to release a second alpha version sometime in the next few days. Anyone interested in beta testing, please email me at icelus@houston.rr.com.

In the meantime, however, what I really, desperately need ASAP is someone who can help write a bit of dialog for me. I need someone who is familiar with dwarvish conversation, especially insults...lol. If you happen to know a few words of the Duergar language, even better! PLEASE contact me ASAP, either via this forum, or via email. Your help will be greatly appreciated!!!

Hey, I'll gladly beta test for you. I was just wondering the other day if someone had made a mod that fixed all the unfinished quests, or if it was in the works.

Just pm me or catch me on AIM/MSN - oddball735 and breakaway86@hotmail.com

Great idea btw!

WooHOO! Kudos to all MODders out there, especially those who actually get things done. Unfortunately, I'm too busy to help with this at the moment, because I promised everyone at Ironworks that I'd have the Rebalanced Wizard Slayer MOD and the Item-Balancing MOD completed this summer--and it's already August. Where did the time go? I need to finish my first Tactics game and get crackin' on my WeiDU.

yeah Six, i've done this myself. after the conversation he starts casting, but nothing aggressive or to disrupt your casting. have a healer talking to him. when he turns read, cast 'heal' and whoops he can speak again.

Um...WHAT?

Um...WHAT? </font>[/QUOTE]SPOILER


The guy in Watchers Keep, level *3*...the insane one. You can cure his insanity by casting a healing spell on him, but the first person that talks to him must be a healer. He was saying that the crazy guy starts casting spells after the conversation, but nothing that damages you or disrupts your casting. Then, once the guy turns aggressive (red feedback circle), he casted heal on the guy and he became sane.

[ 08-04-2003, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: Pyrenk ]

They are talking about the Imprisoned loony in the Underdark, not the WK's one.

Sorry, I really need to pay more attention.

Yakman was on level 3 anyway, not two ;)

SPOILERS
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Ah, the Chromatic is on level 2. Sorry, I haven't been in WK for a year or so. I keep creating new characters...trying to find one that I like. My crossbow archer is going along well, though. I need 10k more gold to get Firetooth, and 34k more to get the SSoM.

I'll offer my services as a spell/grammer checker of the dialogue. I can't help with Dwarvish or much regarding typical D&D conversations, but I can usually spot spelling and grammer problems that seem to be such small but critical factors in making a mod work well. I'll email separately.