tell me people of IRONWORKS What is the better class...

In fact, there is no such thing as 'best class'. All classes ARE powerful at high levels, all are fun to play, and every one has its own advantages and disadvantages. What really matters is personal preference...

Speaking of which, sorcerers rule!

:casts permanent Time Stop so noone disrupts the truth said: [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color="gold">What Tassadar said is absolutely true. But it can also depend on what party you plan to have him/her in. If you e.g. plan to have one of them in a warrior-strong party, the Cleric might be the better choice, with a larger selection of healing-spells. If you have a more defensive party, an offensive Mage might be your best choice. It all depends on your playing-style. ;)

But pure powerwise, the Sorcerer is the strongest. [img]tongue.gif[/img] </font>

Well said Tassadar, there is no "best" class... The best class IMO is the class taht u like most~ Like me, I've played all class and I've found out that I'm not good with spellcasters, and I also like "melee" better, so I stick with my Kensai and I found out that my kensai is doing more rampage in the agme than I was when playing a sorc :D

it totally up to you...from my experience clerics are for protection and healing mainly i cant imagine someone using his cleric for offensive spells mostly!on the other hand i prefer wizards...because they are killing machines if used right!!!!but they their inability to wear armors helmets take shields sucks so create a cleric/mage to have everything!!!!!

[ 06-09-2003, 06:38 AM: Message edited by: sorab ]

Since Spirits forever didn't give us any context of the choice I assume we compare solo choices [img]smile.gif[/img]

Sorcerer is best not only power-wise, but fun-wise too. With little or no problem as compared to mage you get a spellcaster, a spell-wielder (thats more accurate [img]smile.gif[/img] )

And on lower (means less than 20, even 15) levels sorcerer is rather difficult to play (I still speak about solo) and extremely fun. You just use EVERY resource avail. Sometimes a single Ring Of Invisibility saves your hide, you get away from the nasty guy and rest, finally returning and avenging your defeat [img]smile.gif[/img]

To understand what I mean, try completing Planar Sphere with a solo sorc of less than 15 level. You will see ...

My current soloist, blade, is not so tough - scribing spells, offensive spins, rogue => fast levelling up. Sorcerers rule!

BTW, have to thank Dundee Slaytern - he infested me with the idea of soloing a sorc, and I am eternally grateful for this [img]smile.gif[/img]

A Cleric is a support class to help other party members and a Wizard is a mainly offensive class. A Cleric's purpose is to heal and the Wizard's is the quite opposite; to kill and wreak havoc. Generally speaking that is.

Do not underestimate wizard defensive spells (Spirit Armor as an example), party support (summons!). And what about haste? Or even Improved Haste on your main fighter???

And clerics do posses a very destructive offensive spell - Harm! Not to mention others.

OK, lets get to it in general words: since it is confirmed that every class can and has been soloed, then both clerics and mages have their own protective, supporting and offensive spells.

I much prefer Sorcs (And Wizards to a lesser degree), but Cleric's Holy Smite is a nice spell [img]smile.gif[/img]

GODS everyone is sorceor crazy these days! I can give a whole lot of reason why pure wizards are better but *sigh* I don't want to start the Sorcerors vs Wizards topic again.

[ 06-10-2003, 02:46 AM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

i agree with you all...but in my own thinking...*owch* i think *owch* that the CLERICS are the best... even though they get their powers from gods and such.. the are still very balanced with theor defensive and offensive spell...i can't really compare them to sorcerers beacuse i don't bother with that class.

<font color="yellow">
AFAIK Sorcerer rules and owens all

</font>

I prefer wizards, clerics are handy for healing, but otherwise I prefer Wizards beacuse they tend to do more combat damage, but personally I always use the Aerie character who is a mage/cleric and solve the debate in one...Bon!

Well persnally I prefer hard working WIZARDS!!
Clerics only purpose is healing and back up for fighters. Wizards with spells such as fireball time stop can take on hordes of opponets. Clerics are easy to kill in the game too. Wizards aye cha cha spell protections and protection from magical weapons......

[ 06-10-2003, 02:49 AM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

Aye, wizards are all good, but Clerics can put up a fight for themselves, especially since they can equip different (and better) weapons that wizards. A high level cleric vs. a high level wizard... Who knows how that fight would end up?

Who cares if they can equip better weapons. A mage (When I mean mage I mean Wizards and Sorcerors) can counter it by casting stoneskin or protection from magical weapons,mirror image, blur etc. Mages have powerful spell protectios and have magic that can break through cleric protections such has pierece magic. If you have played the game for as long as I have you would know the mages are the most dangerous bunch in the game. (Especially lilches *shrudder*) The only way you can really defeat a wizard is by catching em by surprise or dispelling all their spell protections.

[ 06-10-2003, 02:50 AM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

Firstly, don't you mean "A wizard (When I say wizard I mean mages and sorcs)"? Secondly, I agree with you pretty much, I'll say that wizards are better generally, but I still stand by my statement that the outcome of a high level cleric vs. a high level mage is pretty undecided... Now if you want a really tough question, what about a battle between an high level multi-class Mage/Cleric vs. a high level Sorceror?

[img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img]

Sythe, why don't you cut your sig picture to the size approved by Rules And Regulations. The pic is OK itself, but it is boring to wait for its loading, even on the 1.2 mbit line I have [img]smile.gif[/img] Never mind scrolling a full page...

Sorcerer's power is in his versatility. If he needs all 7 of his 8lvl spell slots filled with Horrid Wiltings, he can have em anytime. Mages have to rest.

Multiclass Cleric/Mage will lose to sorc if they are not of the same level, but have the same xp. Lvl25 sorc would have the xp (probably) not sufficient for the mage part of his opponent to reach lvl18, thus no Time Stop to C/M. The end [img]smile.gif[/img]

Druids have much better arsenal against wizards... Creeping Doom and all such [img]smile.gif[/img]

Spirits forever said "Cleric" and in that I include Druids.....

Never underestimate the power of a high level druid, especially a Druid/Fighter Dual/Multi class. Not only are they good warriors, they can compliment their fighter abilities with 'Iron Skins', 'Creeping Doom', 'Heal' and 'Regeneration'. Those spells are severly powerful, a fighter that regenerates, can heal himself, disrupt enemy spell casting whilst causing damage to them and temporarily make himslef invulnerable to damage using 'Iron Skins'! GREAT! And the HLAs 'Greater Elemental Summoning' and 'Fire Elemental Transformation' are good as well.

As you might be able to see, I have a certain fondness for Jaheira. I recently started a Fighter dual classed to a Druid in BG1 and am working through that. Despite the fact that my fighter class is only Level 2, I can still get a +5 Proficency in Scimtar later on in SoA!

However, some people seem to think the obvious choice is Sorceror. Whilst it's fun to play and certainly powerful, I'd challenge them with my Fighter/Druid any day. I might not win, but I'd make a fantastic runner up! ;)

I don't have my game manual handy, can anyone tell me if a Druid can cast 'Shield of the Archons'?

Ah, En Taro Adun mighty Tassadar! ;)

Adun Toridas, DJG [img]smile.gif[/img]

I just HAVE to try out a Druid someday... but not before I complete my blade and get an another sorc all up to lvl50 - I need a duelling machine against an ignorant berserker [img]smile.gif[/img]

Iron Skins do not mean much against a sorc.
ToB HLA spoiler
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Imagine facing a Planetar with your multiclassed fighter/druid [img]smile.gif[/img] A bunch of them - cheese [img]smile.gif[/img]
A CC-bomb?? A 4PI CC combo???

Why not try that? It wouldn't affect your XP on the Druid class too much and you get a few little tidbits such as Full Plate Mail +3 and +5 Weapon Proficiencies! ;)

Why not start a dual fighter=>druid? The cause is one but too strong: I no longer have BG I [img]smile.gif[/img]

Tell you what then. I'll do it for you if you want.

I'll E-Mail you the .CHR file for a Level 2 Fighter Dualled to a Druid just starting SoA tonight if you want! It is not a problem!

I can always forge a similar char through ShadowKeeper if I care. But my Blade is still lvl18, so the f=>d project is on hold for some more time [img]smile.gif[/img]

Remind me, oh people, what is the Shield Of Archons spell?

Shield of the Archons is the Cleric form of Spell Trap. In the hands of a Druid it could be quite deadly, but the only problem is I'm at work and I don't have my manual handy!

Is Shield Of Archons RRoRable?

Tell me what the hell RRoRable is supposed to mean and I'll give you an answer! ;)

Ruby Ray of Reversal-able [img]smile.gif[/img]
Dispellable like a usual mage spell protection, I mean [img]smile.gif[/img]

I would think so...ill test it real quick

edit: yes, it is. its even pierce magicable

[ 06-10-2003, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: Raistlin Majere ]

Hmmmmm......

I'll just use an array of magic resistance equipment to overcome a mage. Any suggestions for a Fighter/Druid to increase magical resistance?

Pray to the Gods, wear equipment, then lament why do Priests in BG2 lack the ability to lower a hostile enemy's Magic Resistance. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

To Tassadar:

The next time you see Insect Plague/Creeping Doom coming towards you, cast Spell Immunity:Conjuration.

ADD] Spell Lesson XX: The Difference Between Shield of the Archons & Spell Trap

Shield of the Archons is a Spell Trap wannabe, but that's okay, since SotA is a level 7 spell, while Spell Trap is a level 9 spell.

SotA absorbs one spell level for every two levels of the caster, up to a maximum of 10 spell levels since the game's maximum casting level is 20.

Spell Trap absorbs 30 spell levels and actually uses the absorbed spells to refresh a spell of equivalent level for the caster, making it quite the evil spell to exploit in endless spell tactics.

[ 06-10-2003, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

Actually I was referring to raising my own magic resistance as opposed to lowering theirs! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Damn it! ;)

Actually I was referring to raising my own magic resistance as opposed to lowering theirs! [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]I was just saying that raising your Magic Resistance to combat Wizards will be in vain.

ADD] And that Wizards have an edge over Priests versus highly Magic Resistant foes.

[ 06-10-2003, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

The sorcerers and mages are powerful indeed. I'm not familiar with clerics, but forexample the problem the wizard have is to avoid Creeping Domm or similar and the problem cleric have is to cast Creeping Doom on the wizard, also I'm not sure what will save the wizard from the blade shields (there are some spells what will remove them, but you should be able to cast them, also a single hit may beat the wizard - they have low hp) or the spell what does 10D10 blunt damage. It is also questionable what will save the cleric from the magic swords (lvl 7 spell). Tell me why are the priest spells boound to lvl 7 - because he is weak - I don't think so. If they fight mage with 5 lvl 7 spells and cleric with five lvl 7 spells - who will win ? Clerics also have protection spells. As I said I'm not familiar with the priest spells, but I doubt the cleric is the weaker class - Aerie may always prove it. One thing for sure cleric/mage is deadly comination. Point me a wizard what Aerie can not beat.

You can roll the game with mage, cleric and sorcerer and you'll be able to compare their advantages and disadvantages.

I dunno about most people... but everytime I try to think of a pureclassed Cleric soloing the game all the way to ToB, I envision the Cleric crying... it is ironic that the pureclassed Druid will have an easier time soloing the game, because most of what the Cleric can offer, the game provides in the form of alternatives.

Aerie is strong because her Mage class is bolstered by the Cleric side. Remove her Cleric side, and she will still be a force to be reckoned with. Remove her Mage side... and Viconia will be dancing circles around her.

The sad truth is... Priests get shafted in BG2. They may perform wonderfully in IWD and PnP, but they are mediorce in BG2.

[ 06-10-2003, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

Clerics are useless, because a Druid has all the healing spells a Cleric has and more combat orientated spells too.

I can get my hands on Three Rings of Regeneration and one Ring of Gaxx (Two if I'm cheeky). With regeneration abilities like that, why bother with a priest? Just walk about for a while! ;)

Finally! Someone who saw The Light!

I really agree with everything you said... and more. Instead of creating different yet equally skilled spellcaster classes - the game features a great unjustice: Mages get the better equipment (The Staff alone can make all the difference in the world, sadly) AND the better spells (cf. Project Image). If that wasn't enough, there's that Sorcerer guy. And as if to add insult to injury, there's an abundance of You Don't Need A Cleric To Do That items, which emulate and even surpass the original spell.

To put it bluntly... Mages get The Staff. Clerics get the shaft. Sad, isn't it? :(

[ 06-10-2003, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: Alson ]

Nononono, Clerics do not get the shaft, they get the Cleric Staff +3! http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmili...trosmiley2.gif

Seriously though, while Druids are technically better than Clerics in BG2, they do get shafted too. Play a Druid in IWD with HOW, and compare with a Druid in SoA with ToB. You WILL feel and see the difference. Druids and Bards get worshipped in IWD+HOW, can we say the same of them in BG2? ;)

If a mod came up and implement the IWD+HOW Bard abilities in BG2, I will absolutely squeal with excitement. :D :D :D :D

I agree - Druids suffer, too - but not to the same extent.

As for Bards' abilities... I haven't really looked through it yet, but the Rogue ReBalancing mod might be what you're looking for. Give it a look.