Who of these characters makes the most worthy tank:

Aerie
Imoen
Nalia
Viconia

Comments:

Aerie: Combined cleric and mage buffs, probably the biggest list of usable equipment for any pre-ToB character (strength modification assumed). Bad Con.

Imoen: Ownage stats, except for strength. Can wear elven chain, or even Shadow Dragon Scales (with a hefty decrease of usefulness however).

Viconia: No mage levels should mean better fighting abilities. Question is whether the perk is too tiny to have any real relevance. Wide selection of good armours, even without strength modification.

Nalia: Ownage stats. Cool con, but that is offset by her mage hit dice. Actually pretty strong. Can use elven chains and is the most obvious candidate for the Robe of Vecna in my all-female party.


I would immediately think that Aerie is the best choice, but I included all in case I've overseen some factor.

[ 05-26-2003, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: Indemaijinj ]

indeed, it would probably be Aerie, since she can cast like holy power, Righteous magic, DUHM and tensers transformation(awsome tanking spell), so thats pretty much why aerie makes the best tank out of those 4. mazzy would also make a good tank for an all female party.

Yes go for Aerie. but Viconia is very good with Belt of X Giant Strength and Sling of Seeking or Everad. Strength bonus is included so give her Boots Of Speed and she can do wonders

This is a very strange list of choices for tank material, http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/eek7.gif but yes, Aerie is the best tank among the four of them.

In terms of being a pretty unhittable, unholdable, unaffectable, immuned to just about everything but Wing Buffet, Aerie is the lady for you.

On the flip side, she has the most damage potential as well.

Go for Viconia have some patience with her and search for a certain Warhammer ;)

Which could just as well be given to Aerie.


The only perk with respect to tanking that Viconia has over Aerie is some few extra HP and the ability to cast all spells while wearing a high end Plate Mail.

Aerie can be equipped with a high end robe (I think Robe of the Good Archmagi fits best with her concept) and a lot of other complimenting AC items.

What makes Aerie shine, however, is the chance to use both mage and cleri buffs as mentioned before.

Their stats are almost identical.

Aerie has one huge advantage over Viconia in terms of buffing up.

Sequencers and Contingencies.

ADD] Girdle of Constitution settles the HP issue for both Aerie and Viconia. They can always get their STR from the Gauntlets of Ogre Strength.

[ 05-26-2003, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

In early game, I would probably go with Viconia, just because you won't have as many spell slots to fill with buffs as you will later on. Thus, Viconia wearing armor will make her stronger than Aerie as a tank in the beginning. However, once you get the right equipment on Aerie (I disagree about the Robe of the Good Archmagi; she is just plain awesome with the Robe of Vecna). She will surpass Viconia, especially with some levels under her (i.e. more spell slots for buffs). However, when going against opponents that like to dispel magic a lot, those extra buffs for Aerie won't last long.

Honestly, I would go with another character as your tank (Mazzy or even Jaheira, if you are going all female). That's not to say you could use Aerie or Viconia as tanks, but having to cast all of those buffs before tanking is rather high maintenance.

Dispel? What Dispel? Spell Immunity:Abjuration to the rescue! As I said... Aerie is able to be immuned to just about everything but Wing Buffet.

It is not that the Robe of Vecna isn't good on Aerie, I just plan on using it on another character who can throw more timestops.

Aerie is the only one of those 4 who can cast a whole crapload of buffs (including Strength and Tenser's), and then slap on some Full Plate. Just because you're under Stoneskins and Mirror Image, don't laugh off AC--it makes your SS and MI last a whole lot longer.

Let's be honest here. How many times will you have a Mage leveled enough to be able to cast Time Stops during Chapters 2-3? Seriously, you rarely will. With a lot of Mages, just swarm them with Magic Missiles/Melf's Minute Meteor. Here, since most of your characters have low health, IMO, I would slap it on Aerie, and let Viconia tank. Aerie can Heal rapidly, faster than any other Cleric in the game, and that will help tremendously. Not to mention that Viconia won't really be doing anything useful anyways [img]smile.gif[/img] Something else that is in Viconia's favor- her innate MR will help in those Wizard and Fighter battles

Actually, SoS, I would disagree with that. Full Plate means taht Aerie won't be able to cast any Mage spells. Therefore, why not just use Viconia?

[ 05-28-2003, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: Assassin ]

Just curious, which character you're playing yourself, Indemaijinj (damn, had to go back to the post three times now to see how your name is written...). A female one as well? Or maybe a cavalier [img]graemlins/kiss.gif[/img] ? Should be interesting to have Aerie, Jeheira AND Viconia in the party at the same time... [img]graemlins/fight.gif[/img]

A female Half-orc Berserker with a natural charisma of 18.

Not only did I roll ownage stats with her, I was also willing to sacrifice some of those 19's otherwise attainable with Half-orcs.


Regarding Assassin's post he is totally right in his statements, but I think he is shooting a bit aside from the point. Of course I am nowhere near the points where Time-Stops and ADHW's are flowing freely. Still, I am thinking ahead and Aerie's primary strength is buffing. Something that can be done before combat, where casting times are less of a worry. I would rather equip an artillery mage, like Nalia with it because she is more likely to use lots of spells during combat. Also the armor class bonus from the robe is better used on her or Imoen since Aerie already has plenty of other ways to get ownage AC.

Besides, I think Aerie would prefer to wear a gilded Robe of Good Archmagi rather than some old evil lich/god's moldy robes.


I am beginning to ponder what kind of role Imoen will come to play though.

A short question... why do you need a tank? If you got Imoen, Viconia and Nalia, why don't use Elementals, Aerial Servants and Skeleton Warriors? Won't take that long till Viconia reaches the magical level 15.

Take into account that none of the mentioned chars has good saving throws. Aerie certainly is the most powerful regarding her fighting abilities, but Viconia has massive magic resistance, without you having to cast any buff-spells... choose dependent on what kind your enemies will be.

[ 05-28-2003, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: Iceblizz ]

does anyone here know anything about Vecna? all i know is that he is a powerful lich, and the robe isnt very powerful compared to the other vecnas items(says so in the Item description)

Vecna is a god of magic (one of them). Here's what is said about him in 3ED Player's Handbook:

Actually, in my description I mentioned that Aerie had already cast Tenser's Transformation, which means her Mage spells would have been blocked anyway. (Question: Does Tenser's prevent Priest spells? Must test this.)

Reasons Aerie is a better Tank than Viconia:</font>

• Stoneskin</font>
• Mirror Image</font>
• Spell Immunity</font>
• Tenser's</font>
• Improved Haste (of course, Viconia can use the Bracers and/or the Ring, but still.)</font>
• Protection From Magical Weapons</font>

Reasons Viconia is a better Tank than Aerie:</font>

• Innate 60% Magic Resistance</font>
• Can wear Full Plate with no disadvantages (apart from needing to use a STR item or spell)</font>
• Has about 6 more hitpoints than Aerie</font>

i prefer aerie but for a good romance you should take the draw, ( she gives a few extra qeust btw )

If you cast Tenser's, then you can't cast PfMW until it wears off. And, PfMW is pretty much the biggest thing on your list, but it has a puny duration. Why does Improved Haste help someone tank? Spell Immunity is something that Viconia can match with her better MR.

One another reason why I like Viconia as a Tank is because Aerie can use MMM, a ranged weapon, while Viconia pretty much just can just use melee weapon, and can't use a Ranged weapon as well as Aerie.

i was thinking about this a bit around my own party make up - the thought i had was that Viconia can't pull down Holy Smite on herself if she's tanking

You can get that quest even without Aerie [img]smile.gif[/img] Its the Bard Stronghold quest...

Um, guys, perhaps I've just been away for a bit (the real world does that), but what on earth are you guys talking about with "ownage" ability scores?

Can I buy a vowel?
I posted about Aerie a little bit ago, and am finding that her usefulness as a tank wildly outstrips Viconia's, because she can pinch-hit and effectively fight in all ranges. In open combat, she's part of the artillery division with the mm's and fireballs. When we're getting swarmed, she's flank defense, where she can ward off anything trying to make an end run, and still have the space to knock off a corridor-killer like Cone of Cold (badly overlooked spell, imho)... and three cheers for whoever clued into the sequencer differences.

Viconia makes a good tank. The very idea of misusing Nalia or Imoen as tanks just makes me twitch, but ymmv...

SoS, Tenser's Transformation does not prevent cleric spells.

Also, doesn't one of the D&D books describe the two Vecna items (hand and eye)? Does anyone know what they do?

[ 05-29-2003, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: Cheesethief456 ]

In the old PnP rules, one of the main points of artifacts was to keep their powers at the behest of the DM... but the main thing to remember, if you want to know "what they do," is...

lots of unpleasant things to their owners...