Hi! I was about soloing the Kensai. I want to try late dual.
I cannot decide what to dual:
Mage

or

Thief.

Now let`s see the capabilities of both:

Kensai/Mage-He can use Amulet of Power,Robe Of Vecna,The Staff of the Magi,he has Protection from Magical Weapons wich makes him almost a God. He also has Time Stop so he can use the hack`n`slahs tactic during the Time Stop...
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Kensai/Thief-When he reaches High Levels he can choose the Use Any Item ability so than he can wear armour. He also has backstabb,Time Traps,Spike Traps...


Now some calculations show/say that a Kensai have to dual at level 13 becuase he can lose some spells becuase of XP. Someone explain this to me plese...

*Xen trys to Summon Jim,the God Of Numbers*


So for the record:would it be possible to Dual a Kensai at level 30 or maybe 35 in SoA and still do Watcher`s Keep dungeon,and still reactivate until Improved Johnny Boy?


Thanks in advance.
Cheers [img]smile.gif[/img]
Xen


EDIT:I have Tactics Mod,Ascension,Ease of Use,The Item Upgrade mod

[ 05-14-2003, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Xen ]

i doubt it :(

edit: from what ive read from the recent posts, i understand that the maximum amount of exp. in SoA is around 11 or 12 thousand points. if you build your kensai to level 30, you will need 5500000 exp. points. then the kensai would be activated at level 31. a level 31 mage would need 7875000 exp. points, thus making you need exactly 13375000 exp. points before the kensai would be activated. thats well over the estimated points, which you can get in SoA. were you a kensai/thief, you would *only* need 10120000 exp points, thus making it possible to activate your kensai class, though this might be pretty hard to accomplish(since you would have to solo a low level thief pretty far in the game).

[ 05-14-2003, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Raistlin Majere ]

You would need to remove the cap. 8 million XP is going to get in the way at those levels.

Well I have the XP cap remover that allows you to go to level 50..


So?

thats a good point! i was just doing the counting(if that even went right [img]smile.gif[/img] ), i didnt think of anything else.

You would be playing solo Kensai for half of the game, then solo mage (or thief) for half of the game then 0,001% of the game with uber character.

It's up to you.

I suggest you dual the latest at lvl 21 to thief.
Or latest at 13 to mage.

Then you will have a cool char for at least half of the game.

I cannot decide...
Anyhow i will dual at level 21-25...something like that


But cannot decide:
Mage or Thief...

Got to check the Search button...

Mage I say.

Pure class Kensais rock! Havent u tried it yet?

<span style="color: lightblue">If you want power, go thief. Not only can a Kensai -> Thief wear armour, they can cast spells (from scrolls), use those items you mentioned, and more... basically, they have all the advantages from the Kensai levels, all the advantages from an active thief, and dissadvantages... lessee...
Can't Wear Armour - nullified by UAI
Can't Cast Spells - ditto
Not good at pure hack-n-slash - Kensai + Armour.

Hmm... dissavantages... how does "none" sound to you. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Both kensai/MAGE and kensai/THIEF are good decisions. The only thing that matters is what do you want? A mage or a thief? Decide accordingly.

Let us note that a kensai/MAGE does not lose AC possibilities with respect to a pure mage in SoA. A pure mage can wear Bracers AC 3 as his best armor, rings, and an amulet. A kensai/MAGE has bonus AC 2 and can wear Robe of Vecna/Robe of Good Magi (AC 5), rings and an amulet. Together AC 3 plus rings and an amulet. That's why I think that any human mage in SoA should be a kensai/MAGE.

A kensai/THIEF loses ability to wear armor in SoA but gains an ability to become a "one hit killer" (backstab plus Kai).

If you want to dual to a thief, then dual at level 24 (4000000 EXP), leaving 4000000 EXP for the thief class to surpass the level of the warrior. This will take you to level 25 rogue.

This gives the kensai 4 thief HLA's (go for UAI, spike/time trap, assassination), and 5 warrior abilities (WW, GWW, GWW, GWW, hardiness).

Go with the thief by the way, since (as has been pointed out already), you can still cast spells, and you can dual later with no repercussions for the second class (meaning you get some warrior HLA's, more HP,more weapons proficiencies, higher kit bonuses and better saving throws). Dualling a late kensai to a mage leaves little room for high level spell casting. In fact, the following effects will happen when dualling to a mage:
<FONT COLOR="#FF6600">
Dual at:
Level 7 kensai: Takes you to level 31 mage. Losing no spell slots.
Level 9 kensai: Takes you to level 30 mage. Losing no spell slots.
Level 12 Kensai: Takes you to level 28 mage. Losing no spell slots.
Level 13 Kensai: Takes you to level 28 mage. Losing no spell slots.
Level 14 kensai: Takes you to level 27 mage. Losing a total of 1 level 8 spell slot.
Level 15 kensai: Takes you to level 22 mage. Losing a total of 1 level 8 and 1 level 9 spell slot.
Level 16 kensai: Takes you to level 26 mage. Losing a total of 1 level 8 and 1 level 9 spell slot.
Level 17 kensai: Takes you to level 25 mage. Losing a total of 1 level 8 and 1 level 9 spell slot.
Level 18 kensai: Takes you to level 24 mage. Losing a total of 1 level 8 and 1 level 9 spell slot.
Level 19 kensai: Takes you to level 24 mage. Losing a total of 1 level 8 and 1 level 9 spell slot.
Level 20 kensai: Takes you to level 23 mage. Losing a total of 2 level 8 and 1 level 9 spell slot.
Level 21 kensai (latest possible dual): Takes you to level 22 mage. Losing a total of 2 level 8 and 1 level 9 spell slot.
</font>
Looking at the above info, dualling at the "favourite" level 13 results in losing no spell slots whatsoever. If, however, you do want to go for a late dual to a mage, there is no difference in dualling at levels 15 through to 19. You will be casting the same numebr of spells. There is then no difference in dualling from levels 20 and 21.

So, to summarise, dualling at level 13 gives your kensai +4 to hit, +4 to damage, 8 weapon proficiencies, and will eventually produce a mage that can cast the same number of spells as a level 31 single class mage. This level also nets a hearty saving throw bonus. (something like 2,2,2,3,2)

Dualling at level 14 is no good here, since the kensai is getting no more saving throw bonuses, weapon proficiencies or kit bonuses, but will get a +2hp boost over the character that dualled at level 13. This really isn't worth losing 1 8th level spell slot over.

Dualling at level 19 is the next ideal step. At the cost of losing 1 8th level spell slot, and 1 9th level spell slot (large price!), the character will get +6 to hit, +6 to damage, 10 weapon proficiencies, the best saving throws obtainable by a warrior and around +8 HP over the character that dualled at level 13 (these HP bonuses assume the character has reached the XP cap).

Dualling at level 21 is the next ideal step. At the cost of losing 2 level 8 slots and 1 level 9 slot, the character will have max saves, +7 to hit, +7 to damage, 11 weapon proficiencies and 2 warrior HLA's. This character will also have a total of around +10 HP over the character that dualled at level 13.

So, if you want to go for a late dual, I would say go all the way and dual at level 21 Kensai (to get some nice combat bonuses and a couple of WW attacks). You will still be able to cast 3 level 8 and 3 level 9 spells. After level 13, the next most sensible place to dual is level 19, after that, level 21. It's your choice, but don't dual between levels 14-18, since you're losing out on warrior abilities and gaining no extra spell slots.

Great job, Jim !

Just to mention, Xen plays with XP cap remover so eventually he'll get all the spells. If he is persistent enough ...

I have a small party named Killers :D , where I tested the late dual.
It consists of Kensai/Thief (dualled at 21 !), Cleric/Ranger and Solaufein (Fighter/Mage). Now you know where the name came from. ;)

And without XP from WK, my Kensai/Thief reactivated before Jonny.

[ 05-15-2003, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: Leslie ]

What about if I stay Kensai until Improved Johnny Boy and Dual-Class him at the beginning of ToB...

Will this work?

Hmm, do you intend to fight Bhaalspawns with a level 6 thief ? ;)

Yes... [img]smile.gif[/img]
I will say:"Fear me Bhaalspawn. I am a level 6 thief and I will backstabb you for 0.003 damage"...

MWUHAHAHA!!!!

If you want to try a late solo dual then definitely go with a mage. Thieves don't have access to the same XP boosting methods that mages do, and thus cannot get the sort of head start you're going to need to get through the period right after dualing. Mages on the other hand, can amass several hundred thousand XP points by simply scribing scrolls. Wait with dualing till you reach Lazarus in Saradush. Lazarus has every single scroll in the game for sale IIRC, and scribing just one of each spell can push you up to about 800 000 XP. If you on the other hand try to buy every single scroll he owns and scribe/rescribe them all, you could probably go all the way from a lvl 1 mage to cracking the SoA XP Cap before leaving his shop [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 05-15-2003, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: Rataxes ]

Yes but alredy soloed Sorcerer...

[ 05-15-2003, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: Xen ]

Or maybe I Could just Dual-Class at level 50 then use SK....but i don`t cheat so this is out of options


EDIT:LEVEL UP [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img]

[ 05-15-2003, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: Xen ]