Heh - my second topic :

I want to make a small party (3 or 4) but I wil not use summons in the game.
I don't like it anymore to use Improved Kitthix who kicks Torgals butt every time. And those skeleton warriors and planetars - bah, LET'S FIGHT - just me and me ! Ok,ok I am calm again .... ;)

I beliefe Archer is essential , but who would you suggest for other 3 members ?

Playing on insane with Tactics and Ascension.

Power party maybe ?
Archer, F/T, F/M, R/C

What about:
PC-Berseker or Wizard Slayer
Archer
Sorcerer [img]smile.gif[/img]
Blade-Improved Bardsong anyone?

Hmm, Blade could help, but I don't want Sorcerer - I want to fight - mano a mano ! ;)

<font color=white> I pure Kensai is Great!

Otherwise I would suggest Monk or Beserker. </font>

Hmm, Blade could help, but I don't want Sorcerer - I want to fight - mano a mano ! ;) </font>[/QUOTE]Ok.If you want mano-a-mano than do not take the Archer. He is not mano-a-mano he is a long range death machine :D .But he is essential.

So you could add Swashie or Assasain...

My anti-magic party is made up of a vanilla ranged fighter, a vanilla thief, an undead hunter, a wizard slayer, a monk, and a kensai. If you don't want summons, this might be the way to go. Just substitute a cleric of Lathander/Helm for the undead hunter. (With Daystar and all the butt-kicking potential with your party, who needs bonuses fighting undead? The cleric is all but necessary because without ToB your wizard slayer can't heal him/herself, and can cast Chaotic Commands/NPP.)

i would say Archer, Beserker, monk, and F/T or R/C

That is, if you are willing to use healing spells [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color="gold">Something like this might be fun:
Monk
Archer
Berserker
Assassin

The monk becomes a true powerhouse in higher levels, being able to kill very tough enemies with one strike. Add in his resistances, and you have yourself one of the best tanks in the game.
The archer, well, as Xen put it, a long range death machine. :D
The berserker... Have him/her dualwielding katanas and flails. FoA and CFury is a deadly mix. And while raged, nothing can stop him/her, not even Kangaxx's deadly Imprisonment.
The assassin is just for fun. That is, if you consider seeing bad guys being blown up in pieces by poisonous traps and devastating backstabs as fun. :D

Could atleast be worth trying. [img]tongue.gif[/img] </font>

Healing spells in the midst of battle are usually too late except maybe for Heal or Restoration. I use R/C for buffing + high level offensive spells.

Chaotic commands is one of the most useful spells I think.

None of them can use Stoneskin or Ironskin or PFMW. That worries me.
Greater Mummy hit me for 76 damage. That's not funny. Assassin is probably dead in one hit.

<font color="gold">Ah, I must have misunderstood, then. I thought you meant a non-magic party. But all you want is a summon-less party... Interesting... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Ok, how does this sound:

Fighter/Mage (multi)
Ranger/Cleric
Blade

Then there's not really much need for a fourth character. All your party members are atleast part warriors, one is also a rogue, and all can use powerful non-summoning magic. If you want a fourth character, though, you can toss in an archer too, just so you have the ranged fighting part covered as well. [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

<font color=white> Where did the Kensai/Mage dual go to... [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img] these guys are... POWERHOUSE!, especially with a back-up team consisting of 2 or 3 members.

Never played with Kensai/Mage? Now its the time to do it ;) </font>

<font color="gold">Ah, I must have misunderstood, then. I thought you meant a non-magic party. But all you want is a summon-less party... Interesting... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Ok, how does this sound:

Fighter/Mage (multi)
Ranger/Cleric
Blade

</font></font>[/QUOTE]Yes, this is something I was thinking about. But traps - thief would help a lot. And backstabs sure would help (and Assassination :D ).

I would actually need an Archer/thief sort of guy.
Or maybe Fighter/Mage/Thief + R/C + Blade. The Mage part would be for protection, and Time Stop can also be achieved by Time traps. And also UAI - Carsomyr. ;)
Hmm - this one looks good.

Hmmmm... you seem to have the relevant mods. I would advocate the Wizard Slayer->Thief because Wizard Slayers are cool, and not enough people use them. ;)

An evil Barbarian is pretty tough too, and Cleric/Rangers are mean.

I've decided to go solo Cleric/Ranger and I will NOT use any summons. Should be fun. ;)

but I will reload sometimes ... [img]smile.gif[/img]

Remember, no summons means no Girdle of Frost Giant strength, and we all know what that means right?

[ 04-17-2003, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: Seraph ]

If you're eliminating Summons, you might as well include an Invoker (or Diviner), since they can't use Conjuration/Summoning anyway. You'll lose some useful non-Summon spells, like Melf's Acid Arrow, Flame Arrow, & the Power Words (?!?), but you'll get an extra spell per level.

- Imrahil

You have not found out the non-summon way to get it. ;)

Wouldn't have anything to do with illusion spells would it Dundee?

Remember, no summons means no Girdle of Frost Giant strength, and we all know what that means right? </font>[/QUOTE]Hmm, I think you are complicating things too much. No summons means that I don't want summons to distract some stupid AI (liches, ...) or fight instead of me. I just to see if I can beat all the opponents alone. Can I prepare well enough to withstand a barrage from a lich and then kick his butt. Or maybe I'll have to wait for my turn undead to kick in.
I also took Yoshimo to open some doors for me and pick pocket a ring.

I look it as a fighting challenge rather than a role playing complicating stuff. I always take Yoshimo with me to Spellhold to spoiler:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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get his black heart and a lot of XP after the return.

Maybe in some other game I will try the annoying NO HELP from others game. ;)

Rataxes, there is a way to get it, without any spells whatsoever. I've posted this so many times on the board, but no one seems to notice.

i would suggest something like
Palladin
monk
cleric/mage
archer

i have never tried to take a bard for my party.i think thought that he is pretty good.

[ 04-18-2003, 06:56 AM: Message edited by: sorab ]

No spells what so ever eh? Could it possibly be to lure an existing monster into the area?

You are on the right track, Rataxes. As pcgiant explained, the area you are in is infested with animals. ;) Just not your 'normal' variety of animals. A simple enchantment spell and voila! Instant sacrifice.

Now that Zarmen is in ToB, I too am running a Warriors-only party. At the moment, I've got:
PC Archer
Minsc
Korgan
Mazzy
Valygar
and Yoshimo.
I'm about to swap out Yoshimo in favor of Montaron (who's more of a Warrior), and soon I'll replace Minsc with Keldorn (fewer spells), and lastly, Valygar will be replaced with you-know-who. So, in the end, the only actual spellcaster will be me, and Rangers are the worst spellcasters in the game.

Now, if this were a Multiplayer party, I would:
Barbarian
Berserker
Monk
Inquisitor
Swashbuckler
Kensai
No spells at all! Yee ha!

My idea is not to use summons. You can still summon with the Genie Bottle, Wand of Monster summoning, Horn of Valhala, ...

A great fighter that everyone seems to overlook is the Dwarven (or Half-Orc) Barbarian

sure they can only get two stars, but whilst enraged the +4 to STR will get you better to hit and damage bonuses than 3 more proficiency points. And with the 19 CON added to the d12 of the Barbarian, you will have a ton of HPs, decent spell protection from rage, and no penalty period afterwards. Dwarves are great because then you can use both the Dwarven thrower and Azuredge for ranged attacks, and up close the defender of Easthaven for AC and even more damage resistance. And with a shield, you can easily match the AC of the plated ones.

You do lose the immunity to Maze and Imprisonment the Berserkers have, but how often do you really need it? You also are vulnerable to Stun and sleep. Of course, with your hit points, Stunning is not going to happen very often, and who falls asleep in this game besides kobolds and goblins?

In return for losing your Maze and Imprisonment immunity, you get the damage resistance and immunity to level drain (which comes up a lot more often)

Your other advantage over Berserkers is that you'll never find them attacking their party members during their rages.

Simple. Lure a Kuo-Toa, Charm him, and sacrifice the poor bastard.

My party would be the following:
Archer
Fighter/Cleric (dual)
Anti-Palain/Mage (I'm thinking of MMM's that dispel on every strike... [img]smile.gif[/img] )
Thief/Mage (dual/multi)

That's that I might do, but I've never tried a no summon game.

Yep, cool party. "Unfortunately" Anti-Paladin dispels only on MELEE hit. ;)

:( T'would be cool if it could've done that with MMM. Ah well... There's always them Arrows of Dispelling [img]smile.gif[/img]