One thing - prepare yourself well before entering this cool place. Gaxx can not enter here ... I hope. [img]smile.gif[/img]

spoilers
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Watchers keep.

What a place. But what nice artifacts [img]smile.gif[/img] .

On level one you're fighting some statues - they cast lvl 7 insects spell on you what causes 100% casting failure, fear, etc - really nice - you've got to kill two of them very fast or ... any idea how to protect against that spell ?

On level two there are notes, notes, notes .... Some immortal cold 'things', some immortal fire 'thigs' until you read the notes of course. And at the end regenerating poly-elemental demon - I've got lucky with successful harm spell. Even when it was near dead I had to do enormous amount of damage to kill it.I found a piece from the Flail of ages - where to forge Flail of ages +5 in D'armise keep ?

On level three - rooms with dead magic - no spellcraft allowed, but my enemy becomes invisible and everybody run in (demon)fear - cool - they (the demons) fight me with poison (try to cure poison from scared party member). The portal you enter in the next room is not always the exit. And guess what - rooms with wild magic - casting bless causes slow [img]smile.gif[/img] and many other 'wonderful' things. And in the room where I can cast at last and what I cast is what is it (sorry) there is a demon who can make some special hit that kills permanently (any HP) - no wish, no raise, no ressurect, etc. All the rooms are filled with traps. I'm still here - the wild magic rooms are dead, and the dead magic rooms also. I'm wondering what happens on the next two floors of the keep, but don't answer me this question - I want to see it by myself.

Heh ... gotta search real hard for questions in that post ;)

I believe the only way of protecting yourself from that spell is the level 5 spell --> Spell Immunity: Conjuration.

IIRC Spell turning and the like do not work .. but I might get corrected on that [img]tongue.gif[/img]

<font color=white>

1. Creeping Doom (level 7 Priest Spell/Conjuration/Summoning), Cast Spell Immunity---> Conjuration and the spell is nullified.

2. Pocket Plane, Cespenar can forge the extra head to the exsisting FoA.

3. No idea actually....

This should be in the ToB section because these are questions concerning Watchers Keep (location added by the ToB Expansion) ;)

[add] Damn beated by 2 minute's! [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] </font>

[ 04-08-2003, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: Annatar ]

Thanks. May be you are right - this must be in ToB forum, but I post it here because I'm still playing SoA (Irenicus is still alive) and I'll not begin ToB until Irenicus is dead. I really don't know where is the correct place. I'm not sure that Watchers Keep will be accessable in ToB. I'm sorry if I have done something wrong. I suppose I'm not able to move posts, so if you can move it.

Pocket Plane escapes me - where is that plane or how to enter ?

<font color=white> Erm... when you finish SoA and enter ToB; you'll find out what the pocket plane is.. and who Cespenar is.

Off-topic:
Merlin from Amber, I already pointed out in the ''Sorcerer Ability /Aerie Ability'' thread that you should watch how many threads you start and what they consist of, you started 3 threads in like 10 minutes.

All the questions you askes could simple be in one QT (Question Thread) because they are all rather small (except the ToB questions). People do this often here in the BG II section of the Forums, its easyer for the people around here to answer all the questions in one single thread then to answer several small questions divided in 3 or 4 threads... get my drift?

</font>

got it.

<font color=white> Okay good, I repeat I don't wanna be a wise ass that is getting on your nerves.. but repeating this will not get you populair here; not even talking about the repercussions that can/will follow if you continue this. (concerning about spamming ect.)

But your fine... your rather new here so, no harm done ;) </font>

[rant]

The Watcher's Keep is a ToB dungeon that is accessible in SoA also in ToB. You can only access Watcher's Keep if you have ToB.

How do I know this? So many people have posted ToB junk on this board that sooner or later an unsuspecting soul is going to run into something.

You honestly didn't know, Merlin, but what really irks me is when people post ToB stuff here because fewer people read the ToB board because few folks at Ironworks have ToB.

Let me repeat that one more time in case you didn't catch the irony.

People post ToB stuff on the SoA board because fewer people read the ToB board because few folks at Ironworks own ToB.

So, what, you have to wait 2 hours instead of 2 minutes for a question to get answered?

If I want to be spoiled on ToB stuff, I want to do that on my own by reading Volo's Comeuppance or Dan Simpson's guide. I want to choose what I get spoiled on.

I'm tired of reading posts on this board and thinking, "hey, that wasn't in my game...wait a sec..."

[/rant]

I absolutely agree that what is only related to ToB should always be posted in the ToB forum, such as this post, but it did clearly mark in the subject that it would (partially) concern ToB, and there was also a perfectly visible spoiler tag in the very beginning. If anyone was spoiled by this post then he's got no one to blame but himself.

Furthermore, I do think most who play BG2 have ToB, the reason the ToB forum isn't that active is because there's simply a hell of a lot less content in ToB. Compared to SoA it is an extremely short "game" and thus, fewer questions concerning ToB will arise. Most of the more popular mods also takes place primarily in SoA, so compared to SoA there simply isn't much material to build questions on in ToB.

[ 04-08-2003, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: Rataxes ]

<font color=white> I agree with Rataxes, There is a spoiler tag and it did mention Throne of Bhaal = ToB in the titel of the Thread, there for Merlin is not responsibly for you being spoiled... you shouldn't have entered it in the first place if you didn't wanna get spoiled.

This (what I already mentioned) should be in the ToB section, though the ToB section is rather neglected (due to reasons Rataxes has pointed out), this does not give everybody the right to put his ToB threads in the SoA only section.

I emphasize that Merlin is a rather new member of IronWorks, don't blame him for not knowing the precise place to put this Thread in (its confusing because Watchers Keep is also accsesable in the SoA WorldMap), I also made the mistake once. He will learn from his error and will now (I hope :D ) post topics concerning Watchers Keep/Any other thing related to ToB in the ToB section of IW.

He put on 2 good ''stick to the rules & regulations'' Spoiler warning tags so, only thing that was wrong was that it statet spoiler and not ToB Spoiler.

Don't attack new members to fast Pirengle, just point them to the right direction... don't smack there head with your long posts (I like them by the way ;) ) [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

Everybody makes mistakes.... where only human you know [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

**AHEM** Spoilers, ToB spoilers at that, in Volothamp's Comeuppance?!?!? Surely you jest! Yes, there are a few small spoilers in there, but they're all behind "Spoil Me!" buttons or concealed as invisible text. Sure, you can look up the Bigby spells and see what they do, but come on.....Spoilers? More to the point, do you have any examples of where you read anything that you would rather not have?

I apologize for my rage. Guess it was the death throes of an unspoiled mind...still doesn't excuse my words.

Sorry about that, Merlin. It wasn't directed at you.

Yes, I should have known better about cracking open a ToB-titled post on the SoA board then complaining about spoilers afterword. I apologize.

But it was on the SoA board that I stumbled on the following things (highlight to read):

[rant]
*<font color=#44341D> Lord Ao gifting the PC, Wild Magic zones, Dead Magic zones, the Big Metal Unit, and what irked me the most, the true nature of Melissan without a spoiler tag! (The spoiler tag was added later, but too late!) I stumbled onto the magic zones thinking there was something I missed in my game. The BMU was an accident. The Lord Ao thing is debatable. But the Melissan spoiler, IMO, was inexcusable. It happened a day after I shipped back my first nonfunctional ToB CD. I read that and thought, why bother?

I don't mind people asking questions if they involve ToB-only items or whatnot. I just wish people would have the good sense not to drop these bombshells on this board. Especially the Melissan thing. Kinda like, oh, accidently reading about where the Helmet of Balduran before having the pleasure of finding it yourself? ;) *</font>
[/rant]

As for spoilers on your site, Six, what about Chapter 13? ;) When/if I ever get a working ToB CD from Interplay, I will go back and read the ToB chunk that I skipped over.

But, seeing as how I can't achieve the phenomenon of posting at Ironworks and remaining unspoiled, future grumbling and griping will be in the quiet of my dorm room instead of posted on the forum.

[ 04-08-2003, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Pirengle the BNM ]

Watcher's Keep questions should be fair game here & in the ToB forum since it's a part of both games. Granted you have to have ToB to even have access to WK, but the games are sold as a package nowadays, so newer people may tend to think of WK as part of SoA (in particular if they are trying WK before finishing SoA & don't want to visit the ToB board til they do).

As long as the thread is clearly labelled as a WK thread, I have no problem with WK questions popping up here & it may be a bad thing (i.e. exposing someone to even more spoilers) to force them to move their question to the ToB board.

Someone who blurts out non-WK plot elements of ToB in this forum deserves the lashes they get just as if they blurted out ToB spoilers in a regular SoA thread.

All IMO, of course...

- Imrahil

Chapter 13 is notorious for being almost indecipherably cryptic--for the most part, only those gamers who have actually been in the places I'm discussing can wade through my oblique hints and know what the hell I'm talking about. I just skimmed through it again, and the most "spoileriffic" thing in there (that I saw, anyway) was my warning to watch out for Level Drain when looking for the Book of Kaza or the Nether Scroll. And the only reason I posted THAT in the first place is because that's where a lot of low-level parties get very frustrated. So there! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

And Imrahil, I happen to be of the opinion that Watcher's Keep is part of ToB, whether you can access it in Chapter 2 or not. If it ain't on the discs that say "Shadows of Amn," then it ain't Shadows of Amn.

I understand that point of view, but I tend to think of it more along the lines of "if it's accessible from SoA, it IS SoA". By your definition, no one could ask MOD questions here, either, since they aren't on the discs. We'd have to jump on anyone who asked Tactics questions, Darkest Day questions, Valen questions, or Item Upgrade questions as well.

I'm just concerned about people who haven't even hit ToB yet who might have WK questions (though, I completely agree that they should be clearly labelled as WK questions).

- Imrahil

Well, this is my stand on the issue, and I quote from the SoA Forum Guidelines,
Places like Watcher's Keep are allowed to be mentioned in the SoA so long as it is explicitly mentioned that there will ToB Spoilers. For this reason, Merlin from Amber has done well and I find no fault with this thread( although his other thread was moved to the ToB Forum due to context).

Pirengle the BNM, I feel your pain, since I have suffered similarly in the past, but it is in my personal opinion, that Ironworks has one of the most, if not the most, non-spoilerish forums around in the internet community. In most forums, people and moderators alike could not care less about the issue of spoilers and do nothing to prevent them.

I do not claim Ironworks to be perfect, but I and the other moderators do everything we can to enforce the spoilers policy. It is just unfortunate that sometimes, a person either due to ignorance or excitement, forget about the policy and post a spoiler. When this happens, the only thing we can do is to inform the person and/or inform a moderator about it. Just be polite about it, as I also mentioned in the SoA Forum Guidelines. ;)

Spoilers are not tolerated in this forum, although I view each incident on a case by case basis. If it is something minor like an item's location, I usually let it slide( unless it is quest-related or such). If it is about revealing the true identity of somebody though, or major quest events/locations, then I will edit the post/thread.

Bear in mind that I vastly prefer the offender to edit his/her post/thread him/herself, and I usually give a grace period after somebody has pointed it out to him/her of his/her offence. If however, the post/thread has not been edited after the grace period, then I step in. I usually do it discretely, but rest assured, I take notes. ;) I also edit spoiler posts if I happen to stumble upon them and nobody else noticed it. I am discrete in these cases as well, usually not posting to actively let people know what I did, although observant people will notice the Edited by DSlaytern]~~ left underneath the edited posts. ;)

Just don't worry about it Merlin, although it does seem like you've started quite an argument between SixofSpades and Pirengle the BNM! http://community.the-underdogs.org/s...py/biggrin.gif

I agree that IW is pretty non-spoilerific, although I have accidently stumbled across some info about a certain person not introduced 'till ToB.

Hah. If it's got ;) s and [img]tongue.gif[/img] s in it, then it's not an argument, it's a duel of mock indignation. :D

"And then I ram my ovipositor down your throat and lay my eggs in your chest. But I am not an alien!"

Well, that made me fail my save vs. spitting orange juice all over keyboard. I hope you're happy. [img]tongue.gif[/img]