Just curious, are bards worth having? what do their songs do? i see no noticeable stat change when they are crooning.. I'm at the stage of freeing Har'dalis or whatever his name is, and i'm considering dumpin off someone to nab him, but I don't see any major benefit from having a bard. I don't really see any postings on them, so my initial thought is, they aren't vital or useful much.

Mezu

I guess they're worth while, I used him for a brief while in the game and for a Blade his offensive/defensive spins are pretty good to beef him up. Plus they have mage spells so I guess they could come in handy.

Hear Dealis(sp?) isn't really worth having in SoA, In ToB he is a very good char.

A Skald can be very good. The songs help, and they are free! And he can cast some spell removals, so your mage can focus on offencive.
Afetr the spell is cast, just let the skald sing again...So the effect never wears of.

According to the manual, bard songs from a generic bard (a bard without a kit) raise party morale and luck. This makes party members less likely to flee in terror, and the luck part decreases enemy attack rolls and damage. The higher the bard's level, the higher the luck. When a bard's using his or her song, he or she can't attack. They're too busy playing music.

Bards can also cast wizard spells. Depending on the bard's intelligence, bards can potentially get 6th level wizard spells. I find it easier giving the bard a lot of party and personal protection spells and giving my mages the offensive ones. My BG1 bards are usually playing music instead of attacking, and it's no problem getting them to stop for a second to cast something.

Bards also get 10 points of lore per level. A character with a high lore rating can identify stuff in their inventory by simply right-clicking on it. At the beginning of the game, a PC-created bard has ~90 lore. By the time you're in chapter 3, the bard can identify just about anything. No more identify scrolls!

Bards also have a pickpocket ability, and can drink potions of mastery thievery to increase it. (Or, at least, they could in BG1.)

Bards must also be human or half-elven, must be of some neutral alignment (NG, LN, TN, CN, NE), can't use a shield or helmet, and can't wear armor heavier than chainmail. (Also can't cast spells in anything other than elven chainmail.)

Bards have three kit options:

Blade: Blades get an offensive and defensive spin that allow them more attacks per round (offensive) or a high AC to defend someone (defensive). Blades only get 5 points of lore per level, 1/2 pickpocket percentage, and their bard song doesn't increase with levels. To me, a blade is so much like a regular fighter with little nifties that you're better off with an actual fighter.

Jester: The only thing different about a Jester is that his song confuses enemies instead of providing morale and luck bonuses.

Skald: Skalds get +1 to hit and damage. Their bard song acts like the BG1 bard song, as it gives attack and save roll bonuses to allies. Their only penalty is a 1/2 pickpocket percentage. This is my choice for a BG2 bard.

Haer'Dalis: Good ol' H'D is a blade, which means he sucks. (Kidding.) But it kinda stinks that the only NPC bard in the game took a kit that isn't very bard-like. That being said, I was tempted to pick him up. He comes to your party versed in short swords and two-weapon style, and by the time you get him you'll find several nice swords and a harp for him, plus with a little more rooting around you can uncover elven chainmail, just perfect for a warrior spellcaster. Plus, H'D has some great party interactions. Anomen is not fond of Haer'Dalis. Somehow, all the women in the party like him, and all the men don't.

I'm currently playing a SoA + TDD game. I already hit the TDD XP Cap (solo thief L26/Mage L40, and for my next game I'm planning to play a Blade, so I took Haer'Dalis in to familiarize myself with his skills and abilities (I don't know crap about bards).

The first item I got in my inventory was a 'Rod of Resurrection', thinking "I bet I'll have to recharge this thing some 24 times to keep this weakling alive through the next quest".

But no, I haven't had a chance to use the rod yet. The 'weakling' is good, much better than I thought. Now, he does have some state-of-the-art equipment: Boots of the Hornet (Item Upgrade), Melodic Chain, BlackRazor + Improved Mace of Disruption + Improved Entropy, Light Crossbow of Speed, Girdle of Fortitude, Girdle of Strength.

With a single "Offensive Spin" this guy can take down 4 Skeleton Warriors without effort... and I still have to explore his song/pickpocketing abilities.

So, I'd say yes, a bard is worth having, IMHO. Maybe not the first choice for powergaming, but 100% fun!!!

[img]smile.gif[/img]

Jaheira HATES him... And has threatened to kill him on several occasions. He wants to sell Jahaira for some coin... They don't like each other much [img]smile.gif[/img]

Who doesn't wanna sell Jahiera away? hehe ;)

[ 03-09-2003, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: Xero279 ]

Well, Jay does end up being one of the best tanks in the game. It's very hard to imagine playing a game with out her. Between her and Aerie, it's hard to imagine doing any thing at all with out them.

I dragged Haer through one game, and, doubt I will ever do so again. I can see why people think Bards suck.. The game does not offer a very good one. Yes, there are workarounds for his weak points, but, not everybody is experienced enough to figure them out. He gets piss poor THAC0, lousy hit points, starts with a poor spell selection, his major bonus is he gets 2 stars in short swords. He can be made into a passable character, but, I find him highly annoying and he does not play well with others. With out going into detailed spoilers, he can screw up a romance something wicked. Also, I can not help but feel he should have been a Skald... Also, I think his pick pockets is bugged. In the game I played, when I picked him up, he had less then 20% for pick pocking.

Bards are a decent class, fun to roleplay, but they fall short of what you can achieve with, say, a Fighter/Thief, Fighter/Mage, or Thief/Mage. The only thing I find truly useful is that if you have ToB, you have have one lesrn Improved Bard Song. That's about it.

The Bard's biggest handicap is that his THAC0, hitpoints, and Saving Throws are no better than a Thief's, so if you're trying to Tank with one, good luck. Of course, they can throw up an impressive array of protection spells, but not as well as a Fighter/Mage or Fighter->Mage can.

Haer'Dalis also has ** in Long Sword as well as Short Sword, and some physical resistances. (While I was playing with Shadowkeeper, I noticed that he only seems to have his Physical REsistances if you get him when he's Level 15. Can anyone confirm/refute this?)

I got him after finishing SoA & starting TDD, so I guess he had 1,200,000 XP. In ShadowKeeper, he has a 15 RES to Crushing, Piercing, Slashing and Missile.

Blades are much more powerful than a regular figter because they have offensive and defensive spin which is a super b skill

much more powerful may be a bit exagerated but its true blades are quite effective. I dont use def spins that much but off spins is good.

I haven't used a blade much, so I don't know the answer to this question, but can you use missile weapons in Offensive Spin? That'd be great.

Never tried but i guess its okay.

Skalds are the best choice if you want your bard to help the party more than dealing damage, but if you really want him to fight I would go for a Blade, my favourite bard kit ( and amongst my favourite classes altoghether.)
Offensive spin works wonders, especially combined with Tensers Transformation which gives you the same THAC0 as an fighter with the same level. Also know that a bard is a single class character, a level 15 bard with TT fights almost as good as a level 15 fighter ( minus weapons prof.)

To summarize, skalds makes for better party-buffing while blades are best played alone or in small groups.

IIRC you can, and I also believe that you can move while in Defensive Spin if you have a Ring of Free Action equipped. [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img]
To bad you can´t use both spins at the same time [img]graemlins/1drool.gif[/img]

( correct me if I´m wrong)

Offensive Spin + Missle Weapon of your choosing = Big fat disgusting damage.

In my opinion bards absolutely worth having. Mainly for three reasons:

1)They have really high lore. No more identify scrolls/spells or paying for it. Just give the item to the bard, examine it and phuf.

2)They are pretty good backup-mages. Although not as powerful as pure ones, but still pretty decent. Don't forget Tenser's Transformation (or whatever it is [img]smile.gif[/img] ).

3)And their song is very good for buffing. Especially if you have TOB, then you have to have bard and choose Enhanced Bard Song. -10 to bard's armour class and 10% to MR and for party members it gives +4 to hit and damage, -4 to AC, immunity to fear, stun and confusion and normal weapons(!) and 5% to MR. I just recently hit 3000k in exp., I chose this ability and then I just sit back and watched my fighters kicking some serious ass. :D

I think they are worth it for the lore alone. Every Identify your spellcasters have to memorize is one fewer Magic Missile spell.

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I have had pretty good luck just casting Invis on my Jester, and use her immediately behind the front rankers, or even behind enemy lines, confusing the spell-casters and archers. She never attacks, unless we are dealing with an enemy with True Seeing, and then she is only a second or two from having Melf's Missiles on the way, since anything that can cast True Seeing is probably not something I want to have my bard flinging a spear at...

I will just yap about Blades, since they are my favourite Bard kit. Most of the stuff I am about to type should apply to the other Bard-types too.
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1. It is not uncommon for people to mention that Bards cannot sing and do something else at the same time, and this is quite a valid issue. However, once a Bard reaches level 16, the Bard can cast level 6 spells and all of a sudden, that issue becomes a non-issue; because you see... clones can sing. ;)</font>
2. Blades were the reason why I managed to learn about the Melf's Minute Meteors Exploit. Masters of dual-wielding, when a Blade casts MMM, he/she also gets to use his off-hand weapon as a ranged weapon( introducing Crom Faeyr, the returnable throwing hammer!). Combine with Offensive Spin for truly satisfying carnage.</font>
3. Bards enable your Thief to ignore Pickpocketing, so you can better distribute their Thieving Skills elsewhere.</font>
4. Tooled properly, a Blade is just about the hardest thing an enemy can try to hit.</font>
5. Tensor's Transformation with Offensive Spin. It's good, it's very good.</font>
6. Stoneskin is vital to a Bard's success. To not take full advantage of it is to deny your Bard his/her full potential.</font>
7. Ditto for Mirror Image.</font>
8. We have covered level 2-4 and 6 spells. What about level 1 and 5 spells? Magic Missile, Spook and Animate Dead are all good choices. Spell Immunity is brillant too, enabling immunity to a school of magic. Sunfire is fun too, and applicable since a Blade will be in the frontlines anyway. ;)</font>

Yeah, having someone with at least a 50/50 chance of getting the Ring of Regen straight out of Chateau Irenicus is not bad, particularly when you get a spell caster and identify at will to boot...

Oh, I forgot to mention major cheesehood.

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Since the Jester is not doing anything offensive by just singing, and since most critters can't see invisible, most battles, including the feared (at lower levels) Greater Wolfwere battle, can be fought right out of Chateau Irenicus by posting the Jester in the doorway and having the rest of the party firing missiles. Not that you couldn't use a mage for the same purpose, but a bard can at least sing, either to the party's benefit or the enemies' detriment.