While playing my Dwarven Crossbowman, with a plain fighter kit, I started thinking that sooner or later, I am going to have to try the Wizardslayer even though I am not fond of the kit.

I have plain SoA, so, I don't think I can use healing potions with my WS. However, that said, the Dwarf I imported has a natural 20 con. He regens on his own.

The point is, I am not sure if I can see the point. I would like to try it, but, as it currently is in game, my Dwarf IS the Wizardslayer. He makes mages into mincemeat with his crossbow.

Convince me, why should I try the Wizardslayer as a class? I know I can get better magic resistance from items, as a plain fighter I seem better off being able to use all matter of items, what are the perks? Or is it more of a ToB sort of thing that makes the WS shine? Being a Dwarf, I can't dual.

<font color=deepskyblue>Well, I chose the Wizard Slayer for a couple of reasons - ones you may want to consider yourself.

1. They can use ANY/ALL armors and weapons. What more does a straight fighter really need??? (BTW, some boots and guantlets ARE usable by the W.S. - like Boots of Speed).

2. The Wizard Slayer gains 2% Magic Resistance per level. This is cumulative with any other Magic Resistance you gain from items (such as Balduruns Cloak and Armor).

3. You also have a 10% chance PER hit to cause Miscast Magic on the mage. This is also cumulative. Your party will appreciate your ability to keep them from getting hit with spells also.

4. Healing potions work with straight SoA once you install ToB. Between that and Healing spells from the clerics, you should be just fine.

I personally never missed the other rings and potions that I couldn't use. I did just fine without them. And I do plan to return to a Previously Saved game and play Cerek through to the end as a straight Wizard Slayer.

In the end, the choice is yours. I would think the natural immunities of the dwarf would be awesome when coupled with the M.R. of the Wizard Slayer. Hmmm....I may even have to try that one myself.</font>

He can't install ToB. He plays on a Mac.

You have already stated the best reason, you have never tried it before....

I agree with JakesOrBetter--If you've never tried it, try it.

However, I must state that I was dissatisfied with my Wizard Slayer, in that the restrictions were poorly implemented. I say that they should be barred from all magic items except for weapons and armor, except those which would fit with the persona of a Wizard Slayer. Why oh WHY can my WS not wear such obviously Anti-Mage items as the Cloak of Mirroring, the Amulet of 5% Magic Resistance, and the Ring of Spell Turning? Why in gods' name WHY?

Cerek: I didn't find a single pair of magical Gauntlets my WS could wear, and unless the Cloak of Balduran is listed as "non-magical," it can't be worn either.

So, Butterfingers, if you're thinking of a WS for the sake of being a WS, go ahead and do it. But if you're looking for Magic Resistance, go for the Monk, because the Wizard Slayer's MR just plain sucks.
- You don't have ToB, which is where the WS's MR finally kicks in
- In SoA, Monks get 3% MR per level, while WSs only get 1%
- Monks can wear the Ring of Gaxx, Cloak of Balduran, Kaligun's Amulet of Magic Resistance, and the Sword of Balduran. Wizard Slayers can only use the Sword and the Human Flesh+5.
- The Regeneration items that a WS can use--both of them--are crap compared to the Ring(s) of Regeneration.

I actually hacked in a pair of unenchanted Bracers, the unenchanted Girdle, and the Holy Cloak, just to feel dressed.

[ 01-30-2003, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

STAY AS YOUR DWARF!

you have raised stats from playing BGI that u wont if u make a new character

dwarves make the best fighters (baring half-orcs) so stay ur dwarf coz they own

Well, all I gotta do is reimport the char file and select a kit. I wont lose my BG1 stats.

BTW, the Dwarfs stats are as follows.

Str 19
Dex 18
Con 20
Int 12
Wis 13
Chr 13

Makes for a good melee character, but, I worry about Mind Flayers.

butterfingers. to make minse of butterfingers and virtually everything else. give him these profs:

axe:+++++
duel wield: +++

and give him frost reaver in main hand, and stone fire in the off hand

later in the game give him warhammer profs and build him the crom frayer and stick it in his off hand [img]smile.gif[/img]

ultimate dwarf setup

happy slaughtering ;)

Um, no, that wont work. Did you not read the post? He is a Dwarven Crossbowman... As in he uses crossbows regularly and that's really hard to do when you are dual wielding. Plus, I do a lot more damage with the crossbow. Why would I want to do less damage?

oh sorry i forgot that part. ...although u would actually do more damage with the 2 axes, i think u should stick with what you've made him to be. 2 axes actually is more powerful. try it some time. its almost unfair how quick you slaughter stuff and the elemental damage from the axes goes through many protection spells [img]smile.gif[/img]

I don't know about that.

I am doing some testing with crossbows. I am not 100% sure, but, I think I can do more damage with the Heavy Crossbow of Searing and Bolts of Biting or Bolts of Lightning. (Somebody really good with numbers want to back me up on this one? ) I have both Stonefire and Frostreaver.

I got a critical hit for 74 damage and it made my eyes bug out. Not to shabby for a ranged weapon.

74 damage?!?! Off the top of my head... that should not be possible unless... unless... STR dmg bonuses are applied to crossbows too... ...

<font color="deepskyblue"><font color="silver">SixofSpades</font> - Ooooops....my bad. You're right, I was not able to wear Balduran's Cloak until after dualing over to the thief class. I also agree with you that the Wizard Slayer should be allowed to use certain miscellaneous items (such as the ones you mentioned) that seem to "fit" the class kit very well.

The guantlets I spoke of are just such an Item. I found them at Arundors Abode. They are called the Claw of Charon and automatically turn any spell below 7th level back onto the caster. It was great fun watching the drow clerics in the Underdark cook themselves with their Flamestrikes. There is a long sword that comes with the guantlets and has a chance to Cause Disease with each hit..but I preferred 2-hand swords..so I didn't use it much.

<font color=gold>Butterfingers</font> - one other note concerning the Dwarven Wizard Slayer. You gain a +1 bonus to your Save vs Magic with every 3.5 pts of Constitution. With a Con of 20, you will have a +5 bonus to save against any magic that makes it past your resistance. Then, a quick trip to Lum's Machine can raise that to a +6 bonus. ;) </font>

I decided to just stick with the plain fighter kit. I think I can make a better Wizardslayer with my Dwarf then an actual Wizardslayer.

As for con, I could become evil in hell and gain a point or two I think. But I really don't want to. I don't have ToB, so, no MoLtM for me.

Nothing, and, I mean nothing really seems to bother him. He has good gear, already has Gaxx's ring, and, with his own regen, it's insane. Also has belt of inertial barrier. In the Planar Prison, the Warden cast Abi Dalzims and did a whopping 6 damage to my Dwarf, which he quickly shrugged off and thought maybe he had drank a bad tankard of ale from Samuel before he went plane hopping.

And yes, that's not a typo. 74 damage. I had a critical on a thrall in the prison for 61. Another critical for 59 damage, this time on a Gauth in the Unseeing Eye area.

Think it is possible? Do xbows add strength damage and we just don't know about it?

I'm positive the STR bonuses were not applied to my bolts when I tested with a lvl 34 Archer and a normal Light Crossbow. I'll test with other bolts and crossbows later, but I think the exceptional damage you get with them is a bug isolated to either the Mac, or the unpatched version of BG2.

How the hell you could get odd values (59 and 61) on your Criticals is beyond me:

1) BG2 only uses integers when it comes to damage calculations
2) Critical hits simply doubles the base physical damage
3) 2x is always an even number if x is an integer
- Getting an odd value on your Criticals should thus be impossible. Again, I think your game is seriously screwed up if you really got those values.

Anyway, what is your damage range with that crossbow, excluding criticals of course? The difference between your maximum and minimum possible damage should be 7 (for 1D8 bolts), if this is not the case, well then you got even more bugs.

You could always try and calculate the damage you should be doing - that is, Proficiency bonuses + Crossbow bonus + Bolt damage - with the results you're getting, then maybe you can find out where this hidden bonus is coming from. I doubt the game just adds a random number, so it must be a bonus already present in the game, but one which was not meant to be applied to crossbows.

Bolt is 1d8
Giant Hair Crossbow is +5 damage( although I believe you are using the Heavy Crossbow of Searing. For maximum damage potential though, I'll use this instead)
Grandmastery is +3 damage
Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise is +2 damage

Maximum damage is 8+5+3+2 = 18 damage, 36 on a Critical Hit.

Even with STR bonuses, and assuming 25 STR, a normal hit will 'only' deal 32 damage, 64 on a Critical Hit. Unless you factor in Bolts of Lightning which adds 4d4 Electrical Damage.

Ergo. You have some warped Mac-only bug. A good bug, but still a bug. Your Dwarf ain't holding a crossbow man, he's wielding the Medieval Bazooka.

http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmili...ocketwhore.gif

ADD] It is possible to obtain odd numbers on a Critical Hit. The target must have piercing damage resistance.

[ 01-31-2003, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

Really? Isn't the resistance calculated before doubling the damage? I've never ever gotten an odd number on criticals, even vs physically resistance creatures. Gauths don't have any sort of resistance anyway, so it still makes no sense.

[ 01-31-2003, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: Rataxes ]

I seem to recall some odd numbers when I executed critical hits, but I do not have any screenshots at the moment. This is besides the matter though, since the more pressing issue is how a Dwarven Plain Fighter can nearly match, if not exceed, what a Kensai can do with a melee weapon.

So the bow bug I have noticed might just be a Mac thing, (Although peecees seem to have the bug as well) it might just be worse on my side?

I get outrageous criticals at times. I thought this was normal actually, being a CRPG and not a true PnP game. With melee weapons, I have had criticals past 100 in SoA.

The only thing I can think of is how Macs handle number crunching compared to peecees. Perhaps, well, by the odd chance that the game code is still trying to use peecee based number crunching, it could cause horrible mistakes on the Mac. There was a well known bug with this very thing a long time ago when Microsoft had a version of Excell on the Mac. Data entry fields would become horribly corrupted when you did the number crunching. This was also a HUGE problem in Sim City 3000 on the Mac... They used a bare bones windows emulator to get the game to run, making it molasses slow and it had all sorts of bugs. The number cruncher did not get along with the Macs way of thinking, causing all sorts of things in your city to go haywire. (There was a way to exploit this and get millions of dollars too)

If this is true, I am not sure what to do. I highly doubt the company that ported this to the Mac would put out another patch. There has only been one patch so far. And there are still known issues. And they probably would not fix it anyway, because most folks would think this is a "good thing" to have happen, a bug in your favour.

Hmm.

Dwarven Wizard Slayers are great. Mine used paired maces, and firetooth +5 crossbow. Couple the boots of speed with Ardutia's Fall, or Flail of Ages, and you're set. You're moving fast, while others move slow. If you give him Whirlwind Attack and Improved Whirlwind Attack, no spellcaster stands a chance of ever casting a spell. And, at higher levels, Wizard Slayers get 5% magic resistence every other level. With the Elven Amulet the queen gives you, you can end up with an MR of roughly 80% to 90%.

[ 01-31-2003, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: Gor Blackmace ]