<font color=deepskyblue>As some of you already know, I am playing a Wizard Slayer in my BGII game. I did not create the character with any plans to "dual" to any other class, but after reading several walk-throughs - I decided to give the thief class a try.

It's been said that the Wizard Slayer/Thief is one of the most over-powered classes in the game...and I'm beginning to believe it. I didn't "dual class" until reaching 24th level as a Wizard Slayer. This means that I have some nice High Level Abilities from the Warrior Pool (Greater Whirlwind, Critical Strike, etc).

After finally reaching 24th level as a thief, I naturally chose "Use Any Item" as my first High Level Ability. WOW - I can't begin to fully describe how quickly this turned my guy into a walking Destruction Machine.

I am currently finishing Watcher's Keep (still in SoA - haven't faced Irenicus yet) and I have seen some very interesting effects of the Wizard Slayers Magic Resistance.

SPOILERS BELOW
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My Wizard Slayer currently has a Magic Resistance of 94% [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img] He got this from:
Wizard Slayer kit, Ring of Gaxx, Cloak of Balderun, and Machine of Lum the Mad. (still don't know how it got that high, according to my calculations it just doesn't add up to that much - but that's what is listed in his character screen).

Anyway, this Magic Resistance first paid off while playing with Lum's Machine. After reading the various notes and increasing the stats for appropriate party members - I gave the 5% Magic Resistance to my Wizard Slayer. Then, I decided to "play around" and see if I could get the 100,000 xp. Well, I got zapped and burnt a couple of times for my efforts..but the big surprise came when the Machine tried to Imprison me - NOTHING HAPPENED!!!! :eek: I couldn't believe it. "A dark ray shoots forth from the machine" and......ZILCH! NADA! NOTHING! Needless to say, I eventually got the 100,000xp. The gas and imprisonment did nothing to me and I could easily handle the damage from the lightning and fire.

After finishing with the machine, I opened the portal to the 5th (and final) level of Watcher's Keep and began completing the tests necessary to free the "Imprisoned One".

I completed the tests presented by the helmite ghost, gained my key, and prepared for what I had learned would be a very hard battle (it was). I had to re-load a couple of times. The biggest shock of the game so far came on my last battle with these particular guardians. One of the mages in the group immediately casts Time Stop. I had set all my defenses ahead of time, so I figured all I could do was wait for her to get done and hope for the best. While I'm sitting there, I notice that <font color=red>Cerek</font>, <font color=yellow>the Wizard Slayer</font> is not "blacked out". I clicked on his icon and - sure enough - I WAS UNAFFECTED BY THE TIME STOP!!!! I could move around and do whatever I wanted to. Of course, I still had to wait until the spell was complete to see the results of my actions. I used my time to shoot the mage with the Wand of Cursing and Wand of Spellstrike that we had found in the Keep. I then equipped the Githyanki Silver Sword and made fairly short work of her, once Time resumed.

Unbelievable - I did not realize that Magic Resistance could actually make me immune to a Time Stop spell. I wonder if this is a bug in the game....seems like it would have to be.

Maybe the sagely <font color=orange>Dundee</font> could share his thoughts and expertise on the subject.</font>

Wow... Mysterious!

I can only see some [partly] logical explenations to this:

1. The Machine's Imprisonment is using a different .SPL file than the regular Imprisonment spell. This actually sounds reasonable.

2. The Mage who casted the spell is using is using a different .SPL file than the regular Time Stop spell. Now, this is surprising.

3. You we're under the effect of something which protected you from the spells. A custom item, perhaps?

4. You installed something which messed up your spell files.

5. You encountered a one-of-a-million bug.

In order to avoid confusion, i would just like to point out one thing. Magic Resistance does not stop neither Time Stop nor Imprisonment.

[ 01-29-2003, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Alson ]

Oh rigthy then, i once stated that the wizard slayer isnt that good of a character. i see i was TOTALLY WRONG! I was actually thinking of starting a game in BG1 with a fighter, roll good stats and make him have like grandmastery in quarter staves and have 2 stars in bows. that way i could give him all the books, have like stats after bg1 sort of like this

Str: 19
Dex: 19
Con: 19
Int: 19
Wis: 12
Cha: 10

Very hard to roll the beginning stats, but not impossible.

I would then import him into BG2, have him change to Wizard Slayer, dual to a mage at level 18 or so(good magic resistance and stuff) and then get like the staff of magi and stuff. my question is, is it afully hard to play, what with the wizard slayer kit being disapled. should i like recruit an NPC or two to tank until i reach a higher level? did i mention i was gonna go as solo as possible? no, i dont think i did...hmm...oh well.

WOW! maybe i intent him.

<font color=deepskyblue><font color=cyan>Alson</font> - I do have 1 "non-standard" item that automatically turns any spell below 7th level, but it does not provide any extra MR that I'm aware of. My feeling is that it was a one-in-a-million glitch, because I don't remember him being "immune" to the Time Stop in the previous attempt (which I had to re-load due to the high number of party deaths). I will let you know if it happens again, but I'm assuming it was just a one time thing.

<font color="red">Raistlin</font> - just a couple of suggestions. If you're going to dual to a mage, you should do it no later than level 13. After that, you don't gain any extra attacks/round. All you will gain is 3hp/level rather than 1. The only reason to go any higher would be to gain a little more Magic Resistance and some of the High Level Abilities, but level 18 will easily put you 2/3 of the way through SoA (of course, that would give you an extra 10% to MR). Dropping down to a mage at that point is going to be difficult. I would dual at level 13 to allow higher advancement in the mage class. You will also still have some of the easier quests still open (like Trademeet). Finally, you will regain your fighter abilities much sooner.</font>

Yeah, youre propably right Cerek. A question worth asking though is, how did you manage with youre thief? you dualed at level 24! did you cheat? also, in another thread i calculated that the wizard slayer/mage could possible have the stats of 21/19/22/19(or perhaps 20)/14/11(18 w/Ring of human influence). also, with TotSC installed, i could get a third tome of wis, thus having 15 wisdom. INSANE i say!

<font color="deepskyblue">Hey <font color="red">Raistlin</font>.

Yes - I cheated Cerek's XP in the thief class. I used two methods.

SPOILER
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In Suldenesselar, after defeating all the enemies and collecting the items to place on the altar, I went to the temple to summon the Leaflord Avatar. Then, I came across a tip on a different site that said you could get "unlimited experience" if you did it right. Basically, it's exploiting the ACTION-PAUSE-ACTION bug that occurs when many of the "Quest XP's" are awarded. If you Pause the game immediately, you can actually run through the whole sequence again and get all the Quest XP again and again and again. I did that until reaching 16th level as a thief.

I then got bored with it and just used Shadowkeeper to raise his level to 23. That way, I actually had to "earn" two levels legitimately before getting my Wizard Slayer skills back.

Like I said, I never planned to dual Cerek over in the first place. I created him in BGI and imported him over to BGII. From the books there and the Machine here, he has a Str of 21 and a Dex of 19, but no other "outstanding" stats (his original Con was only 13).

However, I also have a copy of the game saved when Cerek was only level 15. That's the game where I originally planned to have him "dual class". After I finish this one, I may go back and complete it legitimately. I also still have a copy of the game before dualing him over at level 24. I may also try finishing the game WITHOUT dualing him at all.

Right now, I'm just playing and trying out different scenarios.</font>

Keep up the good work Cerec!
"i have a dream" One day Alson, dundee et all, will all bow to the wizard slayer. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 01-30-2003, 06:49 AM: Message edited by: wellard ]

<font color="deepskyblue">Well, I do have an idea for an NPC Wizard Slayer that would attack the party (very similar to the Acid Kensai). I've come up with good weapons and armor for him. They are powerful (a necessity when possibly facing a party of 6 by yourself), but I don't think they are as "unbalancing" the Acid Kensai's katana.

Besides, his weapons and armor will be restricted to the Wizard Slayer class - so there isn't much chance of them actually being used in the game. ;)

I don't have the time to devote to creating the character right now, nor do I have the necessary programming skills....so I sent an e-mail to Mr. Weimer to see if he would be interested in doing the actual programming. Of course, I have not heard back from him yet...but I will definitely let everyone know if I do.

Until then, just remember that one of the best spells you can use is...

<font color=lime>Barbarian Magic Missile</font> - <font color="yellow">Grab the party wizard and throw him at the nearest monster. Either way, something good is bound to happen.</font> [img]graemlins/laugh2.gif[/img] </font>

you underestimate the power of use any item :D

Eh? While it is definitely not to the extent of worship, I am a fan of the Wizard Slayer and was the one to fully maximise the cheese potential of the Wizard Slayer->Thief.

Earlier prototypes from other people were like, "Hey cool, I can use magic rings now". Mine was more like, "Immunity to physical damage and magic? Hell, why not?". [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] Granted, it required some items from certain mods( which made the game harder), so in an unmodded game, you can 'only' achieve near-immunity.

I am not a fanboy of the Wizard Slayer, but I do love using the class. For schizophrenic fun, roleplay a Wizard Slayer->Mage. :D One can only imagine Minsc's facial expression in the following scenerio,

<font color="white">"Mages are bad... bad Mages... kill Mages... no wait... I'm a Mage... I'm... a Mage? Mages bad... so... me bad? ME BAD! ME BAD MAGE! Bad Mage! Bad Mage!"

*slaps left hand with right hand repeatedly.</font>

[quote]Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern:

Quote:

Originally posted by wellard: [qb][i]<font color="white">"Mages are bad... bad Mages... kill Mages... no wait... I'm a Mage... I'm... a Mage? Mages bad... so... me bad? ME BAD! ME BAD MAGE! Bad Mage! Bad Mage!" *slaps left hand with right hand repeatedly.</font>

I keep imginaning the scene from fight club where ed norton beats up himself.

you underestimate the power of use any item :D </font>[/QUOTE]<font color="deepskyblue">That's very true, <font color=gray>Baros</font>, but most thieves don't use full plate armor or 2-hand swords. [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img]

Getting back to the original topic of Magic Resistance and Time Stop....it seems to be a glitch in the game and is a recurring bug. I went up against Demagorgon for the first time last night. He showed up and immediately casts Time Stop - which froze everybody EXCEPT Cerek. I was able to start hacking away on him immediately (not that it did any good, mind you. It just made the Big D concentrate ALL of his attacks on me and I died shortly thereafter). The interesting thing is that when I had Imoen cast her own Time Stop, Cerek was affected by hers. :confused: Ah well, if I have to choose whose Time Stop I want to be ineffective, I'm going to choose the enemies everytime. :D </font>

:confused:

[ 02-01-2003, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: Cristian ]

LOL.. But Cerek which is the more destructive/ fun to use?

option1 Nalia.. small, easy to handle but not much damage

option2 Jenson.. ditto above but may controvene international treaties on the throwing of dwarves.

option3 Edwin.. heavy, lots of noise and bright red sparkels

option4 Imeon.. medium size but destructive, sometimes leaves a sense of guilt if used.

[img]graemlins/gore.gif[/img]

What about option five: Aerie?

Ah! Aerie how could I forget? [img]graemlins/fairy.gif[/img]

option5 Aerie... small, makes whining noise, not as aerodynamic as she once was, the peoples favourite for throwing at big monsters (and leaving stage left quickly after)

Apoligies to all magik users out there who I have not offended. :D

LOL.. But Cerek which is the more destructive/ fun to use?

</font>[/QUOTE]<font color="deepskyblue">In terms of BGII, Edwin and his infuriating attitude are definitely #1 on the list. Any mage that goes around constantly bragging about how superior he is will almost always be given a chance to "prove his superiority".

This "signature move" actually comes from my PnP days. I played a 1st Edition barbarian (as described in the <font color="white">Unearthed Arcana</font>). They were very powerful physically, but they disliked magic-users. At lower levels, they wouldn't even consider being in the same party as a mage, but eventually this distrust wears off (as more levels are gained). My barbarian (Cerek, of course), never did get to the point where he actually liked mages, but he ended up having to adventure with one in particular on several occasions (because he was played by my college roommate).

These two were like fire and gasoline. The mage was chaotic and always "picking on" Cerek. Finally, we were in a big fight and not having much luck with our regular weapons. I don't recall the exact chain of events, but the mage made some snide remark about how HIS skills were much better than mine. Next round, Cerek gave him a chance to "prove" his skill by launching him towards the closest monster. The DM allowed the mage to grab a wand out of his cloak pocket and "zap" the monster in self-defense. It was a Wand of Lightning and did a good deal of damage to the monster. Then Cerek and the party ranger came in and finished it off.

See - something good DOES happen everytime. :D </font>

Unearthed Arcana. Aaaah... The memories. The second toned down version of both the Cavalier and the Barbarian.

The original Barbarian, intruduced in the Epic Adventurers Pack, now that, THAT was overpowering. They rolled a 2d8 for hit points, got special bonuses when using any two handed weapon, and, these bonuses scaled with level. Sword of Sharpness effect, critical strikes, impalement, and, finally, a vorpal like effect. They were completely forbidden to use any magical items but weapons. The best armor they could wear was padded hide armor. At 8th level, they got their own natural regeneration. Immunity to poison. (Making them a good potion tester... when you found an unidentified potion, make the barbarian drink it lol. If it gave him gas, it was probably lethal poison to everybody else)

I had one named Halitosis Halburry. He never bathed, had terrible charisma, his only good roll was his constitution. A natural roll of 18. I don't remember the rest of his stats. In a memorable campaign, he got swallowed by a Pit Wyrm. Turns out, swallowing barbarians is bad for your health. He actually survived the beast's acidic stomach, gave him terrible indigestion, and, caused the Pit Wyrm to throw him up, which really made him smell bad. He had one special move which the DM actually allowed. He was highly skilled in hand to hand combat, allowing him to make chokeholds and wrestle. He had a special move which he could grab somebody, stuff their face into his armpit, and, they were forced to save vs poison and death or be nauseated and unable to fight for 1d4 rounds. Ah, the good old days of pen and paper.