Ok, I'm new to the forum, and have been playing Baldur's gate II for a few weeks, after having been playing BGI for over a year. Here is my situation.

My char is a 7th fighter/22nd thief, I have a 19 STR (tomes from BGI) and have the highest proficency in long sword (Grand Master I think). My backstabs are supposed to be x5, but ever time I backstab, it only does damage in the low 40s. I even had one at 37 last night. I do more damage with a critical hit! With +7 damage for STR, +3 for Longsword (Drow), plus my weapon profiency bonus (+3 or +4, whatever the best is), I don't see how my minimum backstab could be less that 70. In case you think, maybe I'm not actually backstabbing them, I am, because I always get the message of "Quintuple backstab". Valygar's backstabs always do more damage than mine? Ack, whats the problem?

Thanks for any help.

-Dobbler

For one thing, the strength bonus is not multiplied with the backstab - only the base damage - and then the strength bonus is applied afterwards - this cuts the projected damage significantly.

Welcome to Ironworks, Dobbler.

[img]graemlins/1djsmile.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/happydance.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/1djsmile.gif[/img]

I don't know the answer to your question though. :(

With a +3 Longsword, 19 str and +3 from your weapon proficiency, your normal backstabs should be within this range

42-77

It is likely that whoever you got 37 against had some damage resistance, or perhaps you were drained of strength at the time?

Maybe the target is wearing a helmet?

That 37 came against a mind flayer. Do they have physical resistance? Anyways, I appreciate the help. Great board, with much helpful info, and kind members!

-Dobbler

wearing helmets protects against critical hits and not backstab

Welcome to Ironworks Forums, Dobbler! [img]graemlins/wavey.gif[/img]

The ""Quintuple backstab" message means that the backstab is indeed successful - but the damage is wierd. Are you playing with the Improved Mind Flayers? They have about 50% physical resistance, which would make sense.

Drewal, are you sure that the STR bonus isn't multiplied? According to some posts, i was under the impression that it is. Jim, save us. [img]smile.gif[/img]

STR is definitely not multiplied, at least not in any of the versions of the game I've played. I've had far too many backstabs resulting in far too little damage for that to be true :D

Or how about a 19 str thief getting a 4x backstab for 15 damage vs a regular Shadow Thief? :(

i haven't used the ability much either until recently but i didn't think that you COULD backstab w/ longswords, when i tried it said summat like "inadequate weapon to backstab", maybe thats why you're not getting more damage per hit, yoshimo backstabs for 60s and up with a katana +1

<font color="lightblue">Decurion, yes you can backstab with longswords. </font>

It's been awhile since I played a thief character, but I am pretty sure the strength bonus was only tacked on afterward.

you can backstab with any natural thief weapon, which includes long swords... maybe you used a bastard sword or something, or maybe your target was imune to the weapon you used. my thief is only str 13 and I get 5X backstabs around 40 with celestial fury. i dunno bout str bonuses though cause str 13 doesnt get them anyway

Welcome Dobbler [img]smile.gif[/img]

Drewal and Rataxes are both correct, the STR damage is not multiplied, but simply added on after the backstab. The only cases where STR is multiplied is when scoring a critical hit. The STR damage would be doubled in this case, giving a max damage range of 84-154 for this particular combo.

Nothing better than a 19STR Assassin [img]smile.gif[/img]

Use Draw upon Holy Might to put it to 25, poison Celestial Fury then whack some unsuspecting fool from behind. Use the ring of invisibility (or the unlimited potions from Alchemy) and repeat.

Ha ha ha.

Traps are cool too. Come on Firkraag, I'm over here. Boom.

Alright, this might just be insanely obvious, but for one, you do have to be invisible right? And two, maybe he saw through your invisiblity like some other creatures do?

BTW, Welcome to IW bro.

strange..my kensai theif never experiences this problem...however yoshimo does. i made yoshi a GM in longsword, and against armored fellows he backstabs for less than expected, but against mages and archers it's perfectly as projected. it could be that the game treats longswords as slashing rather than piercing...?

For those that think I'm not actually backstabbing, I am. I always get the prompt of "Aklar backstabs for quintuple damage" or whatever it says. I normally am hiding in shadows or invisible or whatever. I just find it odd that Valygar backstabs for more damage with a quadruple backstab and he doesn't have GM in Katanas, like my main char has in longswords

here's the reason: Katanas are piercing, Long Swords are slashing. so AC affects the damage of long swords, but not katanas.

AC shouldn't have any effect on the damage inflicted. It is merely one of the factors which determine if a hit connects or not.

There is something peculiar about backstabbing in this game, that's for sure. Something not quite right, can't put my finger on it. Valygar for example, does huge amounts of damage for backstabs, but, he is only a stalker, while I have watched thieves (Like a PC or Yoshimo) get piddling sorry results. Some times, it's almost like Valy gets assassin like bonuses for backstabbing.

I still can't quite put my finger on what it is.

But I agree. Somebody with 19 str should get a wicked kidney poke, not some weeny kidney prick.

BTW, I have seen Valygar backstab for over 100 damage.

In most cases, Valygar will be using a weapon with a greater damage range (say, 1-8) than a Thief will be using (say, 1-6). Which means he can roll a higher number, which will then be multiplied. He's capable of getting an 8, multiplied by, e.g. 5, while a Thief can only get a 6, multiplied by 5, just based on the weapons he's able to use (& backstab with).

All the extra stuff, like the +X damage from the weapon & your/his Strength, gets added on at the end, so you're really just looking at the base damage that he can inflict vs. what a Thief can inflict, & his will generally be higher.

(naturally, there should be times when he "rolls" low, & your Thief does more damage - if he is always getting more, at equal backstab multipliers, particularly with the same weapon equipped, then it may be a bug)

- Imrahil

<font color="brown"> read the long sword description, it says that it is slashing damage, not piercing. it does less damage against targets with armor. Try this: find a mage. backstab with both characters several times (using quicksave+quickload)...see who gets higher dmg. </font>

Armour does not affect your damage unless it confers physical damage resistance. A 1d6 slashing weapon will deal as much damage as a 1d6 piercing weapon.

is that in the 2nd edition rules? i'm not all that familiar with them, but i think slashing does have some sort of an armor mod... (mb 1st or 3rd?)

I am not referring to any D&D rules at all, I am explaining how it works in the game.

Different weapon types (slashing, piercing etc) are different only in that the target will have AC mods (chain is +2 AC vs crushing IIRC) which affects your chance to hit, not damage. Individual targets *could* have resistance against specific damage types (10% against missile for the Orc Leather, for example), but this wouldn't cause the poor backstabbing effect seen. Personally I think the backstab is a bit screwy at the best of times and just live with it.

it's only fitting that some backstabs do a little less damage than expected. Kai+backstab+critical+celestial=100+ so...someone could hit but just garble...

in some games, enemies gain resistances to elements and physical as the difficulty level. could this be responsible?

Not in BG2. :rolleyes:

What your forgetting here is that the highest backstab multiplyer a stalker(Valygar) can get is x3 so I find it very strange he does more damage than a thief with a x5 backstab multiplyer. In one of my previous games were I had Yoshimo and Valygar, Yoshimo always did more damage with a backstab than Valygar who's backstab's in all honesty were not that impressive usually about 30 something damage.

What about the effects of weapon specialisation? Thieves can't do it, but Valygar can, and a +1 to hit, +2 damage multiplied by the backstab factor (if it [b]is[/i] multiplied) would account for it.

My Human Thief (STR:19) managed a backstab of 102 yesterday - the poor Yuan-Ti Mage never stood a chance. I know 102 isn't especially high, but I was impressed considering he was only level 11 (x4 backstab) and only using a +2 short sword (Arbane's sword). Since the damage range of the sword is d6+2, giving a maximum of 8, there's a big shortfall to the pre-critical level of 51.