Wait button?
 

As mentioned in the other forum,

http://ua.reonis.com/index.php?topic=899.msg10428#new

I have designed a guard who walks around. In this context, I suddenly realized that - apart from the rest option - there is no option for the party to wait. Not to rest, but only to wait for, let's say. 1 minute.

The only things which came to my mind were that you can add a turning penalty in the Global Menu, or perhaps turn the "searching" duration to 1 minute (which, if the player clicked "look at", would envolve 1 minute passing by). Another option would be a question button: "Do you want to wait 1 minute?", or maybe an event tied to the EXAMINE button for NPCs, combined with a logic block adding one minute to the party time. But this would probably not trigger an event tied to the following minute if not paired with a teleporter event...

All the options above are not exactly what I think of. There should be the possibility to make a "0-step", meaning that 1 minute passes whithout the party doing anything, but including triggering events. Is that possible, and does anybody agree that this is useful? In my guard example, it would allow the party to stay at the same place and see the guard walking by.

Or am I overlooking an already possible thing?

Re: Wait button?
 

Sounds very easy to supply.
There are no menu' options for
movement. Do you think there should
be a menu option 'WAIT'?

The space bar could perform a 'WAIT'.

The mouse in the viewport can be used
to move about. Should it be possible
to performa a 'WAIT' similarly with the
mouse? Right Click? What?

I envision 'WAIT' as a movement of
zero spaces. A step of zero length.

Is it reasonable to put effort into this?

Re: Wait button?
 

What about the Look button? It causes the party to stay in one spot, doe a 'search' and 10 minutes passes?

I am not opposed to a Wait button, and could see it being quite useful, b ut maybe we just need to make it so the Look option can have the time set by the designer...

Also, this just came to me, so hasn't been tried out, but the Encounter event allows a definable menu -> one of the buttons could be "Wait" and it would be linked to a pass time event. :)

Re: Wait button?
 

I thought the time that passes when you press look is set in the global menu, Manikus (identical to the amount of time passing per step when in search mode). In any case, this would not be the same. I want to give the player the opportunity to let only 1 minute pass, but searching/looking at should last longer than 1 minute...

I must admit that I did not think about the "pass time" event, though. Does it trigger events on the same square once the time has passed? I have to check that. But however, you still would have to tie the "pass time event" to another event or maybe an NPC or item...

Therefore, if it is really not a big deal, than I would like that extra option. A movement of 0 steps, yes. :)

Since, as Paul pointed out, there are no movement buttons in DC, I think the space bar would be a good idea. What is important, is that events are triggered again after the waiting, so that you e.g. can watch a guard (with his movement triggered by party-minutes) pass by...

Re: Wait button?
 

Sounds cool to me. I think the space bar being a movement button would be great. :D

Re: Wait button?
 

Movement button or key? :)
I think what I wrote about "buttons" was a little confusing, but you probably got what I wanted to express... :D

Re: Wait button?
 

UAFwin version 0.930068 implements
the spacebar to 'Wait'. One minute elapses
and step events, etc should get activated
(but I did not test it).

If you don't know where to find it or you
don't know how to use it, you better wait
until it comes out with version 1.0.
Manikus can test it a bit.

Re: Wait button?
 

Sounds good! Thanks!

Re: Wait button?
 

I actually did mean "key". ;) good thing that Paul wasn't confused. :D

As for actually waiting - the space bar being pressed causes 1 minute to elapse but no movement to occur, and it causes step events to occur. :D Thanks, Paul.

Re: Wait button?
 

That's exactly what I want, nice!
From version 0.93xx upwards, but not in 0.914xx, the version most people are probably using at the moment, right? (Otherwise, my request would have been senseless).
I will probably continue with Friedrich's Revenge in 9.14xx, but make some final changes in either 0.93xx or higher (maybe 1.0 is completed at the same time).

By the way, it seems that "look at" does only trigger events tied to the "party is searching" trigger. This is perhaps on purpose, but since "looking" is also tied to passing time, events triggered by "party time" should be triggered also, should they not?

Re: Wait button?
 

If the 'WAIT' works well then it should be
relatively easy to add a hook to a timer.
Then you could write a script that causes
an automatic 'WAIT' once per second if the
party has not performed some other action
in the previous, say, three seconds.

Now things start to move around as they
do in 'Dungeon Master' or 'Eye of the Beholder'.

I suppose that could be considered heresy.

Re: Wait button?
 

:D
As I mentioned earlier, if your Chaos strikes back clone would offer some more editoring options, I am not sure whether I would design with DC or with CSBuild. :D

Still, I prefer games like DC and its predecessors or the older Might and Magic versions, whithout automatic "running time". Games like Dungeon Master can make you so nervous... :)
At least, there should be an option to pause and still assign tasks to the party members, as e.g. in Drakensang, or an option for round-based combat.

Re: Wait button?
 

To each his own. They are different kinds
of games. Imagine Super Mario with turn-based
combat.

I liked the old Might and Magic, too.

Re: Wait button?
 

As long as it is at the designer's discretion, I consider it awesome! ;)

Re: Wait button?
 

I think that the idea of having a timer, and a wait button a nice addition to the options available. Mebbe some "hot keys" to set up for attack buttons? some designers will use it, some won't.

Oh, and there actually was a super mario RPG for super nintendo and it was quite a break from the arcade style of mario... But to me it was an awesome rpg!!!

Wasn't there some kind of middle-ground made for the multiplayer neverwinter knights AOL game? as in, if you didn't make some kind of move within a certain time limit (like 15 seconds, or so) then the game made the next step: either an enemy move, or the next players turn.

ST

Re: Wait button?
 

I was also thinking about multiplayer games when Paul mentioned the option of hooking the game to a real timer. To my knowledge, there was one game ("Bloodwych"?) which was very Dungeon Master like and allowed a two player mode (even at the same computer. with split screen), and a Dungeon Master clone with this option (I never played these games, unfortunately). I assume that this would also be thinkable for DC - but not really worth the effort... :)

Hmm... Ten years ago, I would probably have asked you if you could imagine to make a Might-and-Magic-3/4/5-like games editor...

Re: Wait button?
 

[quote]if you could imagine to make a Might-and-Magic-3/4/5-like games editor]/quote]

Never played those modern games.
Enjoyed MM-II a lot though. I still have
all my hand-drawn maps.

Re: Wait button?
 

You know, I don't think I've played Might and Magic...I just did a bit of research, and it looks like a game I have played (freeware, Ancients I) was based on Might and Magic III-V. :) Interestingly, the same company owns the rights to M&M as FRUA and all the GOldBox games (Ubisoft).

As for NeverWinter Nights on AOL, the game was exactly like the other GoldBox games until combat was entered - that was the multi-player part. During combat, which was still turn-based, the player had 15 seconds to make a decision or their turn was lost until the next round. I think experience was handled differently as well, but you'll have to ask in the FRUA Community forums for someone such as Vix to answer as I never played it on AOL, but have downloaded and played as well played the Forgotten Worlds game which uses the NWN/AOL engine.

For a long time, folks regularly requested a mutli-player version of DC...personally, not my thing, I think your time would be better spent if you played the modern NeverWinter Nights or Dungeons & Dragons Online, something where you could chat. Of course, I suspect that the AOL folks had their AIM open while playing, and DCers could dod the same if this were ever to happen (which would be way passed version 1.0). :D

Re: Wait button?
 

I'm not so worried about multiplayer as I am the (optional) ability to make an eye of beholder clone. Even if it is a step away from DC, I like this VERY much.

ST the option advocate

Re: Wait button?
 

the only thing I really like about the Eye of the Beholder series was the graphics. I didn't much like the gameplay or the story. I didn't hate them, or anything, just would have rather downloaded and played a FRUA mod. :)

Re: Wait button?
 

Concerning the "WAIT" thing: Is it possible to also have an event in the event editor (or at least a script) that does exactly what we discussed above (the "zero-step")?

I think this could be crucial for event loops like those I used for the combat in Friedrich's Quest. Therein, I used transfer events to make events at the beginning of an event series happen again. A "0-step event" could be much more effective and less complicated...

Re: Wait button?
 

I am not quite clear on what you are trying to do, but mightn't a Pass Time event do the trick?

Re: Wait button?
 

Unfortunately not, since the Pass Time event does not "re-trigger" events. It sets the party time to another value, not more. I assume that step events, for example, will also not be triggered after a pass time event.
But my "problem" are events triggered by party time.
If you have a certain event which is only triggered, e.g., at party minute 10, and your current party minute is 9, than a pass time event of 1 minute will set your party minutes to 10, but the certain event normally triggered at minute 10 will not happen - even if it works perfectly otherwise if you make 1 step or teleport the party after minute 10 is reached...

Re: Wait button?
 

What you want to do is cause a minute
to elapse from within an event chain. This
elapsed time will cause other events to
occur within the original chain of events.
This is a sort of recursion and it frightens
me greatly to think about implementing and
debugging such a thing. It might be easy
once we understand it completely. But
the understanding itself would be a major task.
I am not up to it.

Perhaps we could provide a way that an
event chain could force a 'WAIT' after the
entire chain exited. Pretend that the player
pressed the space bar once immediately after
the event chain is completed. Then your
step event would run again and you could
force another 'WAIT' until you were
satisfied that you had waited long enough.

Re: Wait button?
 

If it frightens Paul... Yikes! ;)

I do understand at least what you were meaning, Dinonykos.

I like Paul's solution, especially since by offering it, he is implying it is something that he is not frightened of and can possibly implement. :)

Re: Wait button?
 

Hmm. Okay, let me inject my probable misunderstanding to see if the waters muddy or clear.

As to returning to the top of an event chain, there are two utilities for FRUA that do this, GeoAid and SCRUAdat, and both do it in the same manner. They allow any event on a map to chain to any other event on the same map. (This is a great boon when limited to 100 total events.) It is possible to create inescapable loops if you aren't careful, but it greatly streamlines things like trap detection/disarming/activation when multiple possible variables are allowed. (Magical trap detection OR searching AND thief in party [%chance] OR searching AND dwarf in party [%chance]). Any result giving DETECTED will chain to the Disarm/Avoid chain rather than the Fall Down The Pit event.

A Who Tries event would require player interaction in FRUA, but in DC all the possible outcomes could be calculated behind the scenes, leaving the player with either "You avoid a pit trap," or "You fall into a pit." And unlike most FRUA traps, either outcome would be fair.

Re: Wait button?
 

Yes! That solution reads good... :)

The possibility described by nologgie is interesting also. Seems superior - as long as you are able to follow all your cross-links between events...

Re: Wait button?
 

But does it do what you originally asked?
Does it , for example, pass time and
automatically run any active step events?

Chaining to another event is a lot different
than running them and then returning to
an active chain.

Re: Wait button?
 

You are right. I combined two different questions.

The reason why I started this thread was that I wanted the player to be able to wait at the same square for events triggered by time. E.g., watch a guard pass by whose movement is done via changing "NPC walls" (simulating a walking character) and triggered with "Get party minutes", all this connected to a step event. Concerning this question, I can be happy now since you have already built this option into the new DC version. If I got it right, the player can now simply press the spacebar to wait one minute, and the events triggered by party minutes will be executed.

Another thing I also try to achieve is a simplified combat based on questions and logic block events.
For this purpose, I used transfer events to make events at the beginning of an event series happen again. So that e.g. the party can win a round against an opponent, is teleported to the same place again, win another round and so on until a certain Quest value is reached and the party has won/lost. However, using transfer events forced me to change the coordinates for every combat. A combat at a random square is not possible with this approach, since at the moment there is (to my knowledge) no way to GET the party's x,y coordinates and use them for a transfer event.

For this problem, the "wait and trigger events again" option would be useful since there would be no need to get the x,y coordinates. Additionally, one combat round should last one minute. Thus, I assumed that the "wait-and-retrigger option" could be a good solution to my problem, and perhaps easily be added somehow to the event chains.

However, for things like the event-based combat (or similar event series), also the possibility to link back to the event at the beginning of the combat would be useful.

Re: Wait button?
 

Indeed. I thought the topic had shifted slightly.

This sounds like what I've encountered while designing in FRUA. A "0-step event" is simpler (with fewer chances of human error) than a transfer event and passes one minute. If you don't need to pass that minute, cross-chaining will accomplish the same thing without an additional event.

Re: Wait button?
 

I want to point out that looping event chains is already possible using the teleporter events and teleporting onto the same coordinates. for more info, check these links:

http://frua.rosedragon.org/pc/uanews/nlhtm14/loop.htm
http://frua.rosedragon.org/pc/uanews.../morequest.htm

I realize that I do not have a finished product to show how event chains and/or event driven combat would be made, but this does work already in DC just like it works in FRUA and you could always put in a change of time event with scripts or passtime event

ST
ps there are a bunch of other tricks the FRUA group came up with for expanding on the limitations of FRUA located here as well: http://frua.rosedragon.org/pc/uanews/

Re: Wait button?
 

The combats in Friedrich's Quest work exactly like that (combination of quests and teleporting; if I remember right, also thanks to you, ST, I think you pointed to the teleporter idea earlier). However, teleporting to the same square does not work with random combats (linked to step events), since you cannot get the party coordinates at the moment and insert them into a transfer/teleport event. In Friedrich's Quest, I came close to random combats by placing the same combat on different squares, and using quests as triggers...

Re: Wait button?
 

yeah, unfortunately we cannot get and set the coordinates on the map... yet. I did make a request of this and paul seemed to like the idea. So, we'll see...

ST the hopeful

Re: Wait button?
 

Paul is aware of the inability to get party coordinates and to set them...I don't know if this will make it in before version 1.0 or not; likely it depends on what kind of mood Paul is in, as I'm likely to say wait on this.