Feature request - wall step thru event
 

Since I couldn't find where on the sourceforge page (they changed it since I last posted any), I thought I'd post a request for feature here.

We have the ability to play sound when someone moves thru a wall (like a door open/close sound effect or bushes shaking when you pass thru), what would be a nice touch is the ability to put an event upon pass thru wall.

I think this as a useful feature, even though we have step events, zone events, item events, rest events, ect ect. Reason: you could do something like the walls of fire that FRUA had with the original release, and if you walked thru one it could run a damage event. Now sure you could place an event, but what if the entire level was done with the fire walls? I mean, you would have to have a very detailed and structured set of events (and triggers like facing and do as attempt to enter) to get every step thru wall to fire off properly. I just envision this being another way to simplify mod design.

ST
ps, I realize this is an expansion and hence it'll be added to the "post v1.0" list, but please consider it.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

The walk-through-flaming-walls was also present in Dark Queen of Krynn, so it seems to be another feature gone the way of underwater combat.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

see:
http://ua.reonis.com/index.php?topic=975.0

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

In FRUA you could hack underwater combat into a design but all combat would have to be underwater, as the hacks would apply in every combat.
You can have something triggered by arriving on the square that lies on the other side of a wall. But you could arrive on that destination square from as many as four other departure squares. Thus there is no guarantee that you arrived on a destination square by walking through a wall. You really do need a wall event, especially if a type of wall always calls the same event.
Edit:
If DC has a facing direction event, unlike FRUA, that could avoid the problem with four possible squares leading to the departure square. But it is simpler if the wall contains the event rather than having to manually place each event. Recreating the Tower of Flame from DQK would be a minor hassle.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

DC does have a "facing direction" trigger. :) Plus you can only enter a particular cell based upon the surrounding cells - a cell in a corridor only has two options, and only if coming in from the 'outside'.

Now mind you that I'm speaking as a fellow designer here and not as the project admin, but I don't see how a wall event is easier...
You still have to define the event in the wall editor. If you want the same event every time (which I presume you do) you can just copy and paste the event in the event editor, which is about as easy as it gets. :D
I think if we start hiding events around in different spots in the eidor, it makes it more difficult for new users and for the developers.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

The defining of the "wall events" does not neccessarily need to be placed in the wall editor.
You could place the defining in the event editor and make check-boxes with which you can mark "event happens when moving through wall 1, 2, 3" and so on (similarly to the way how zones and step events are handled...).

However, although I see ST's and Shadow Stranger's points and would appreciate a "wall event", too, I really would not put effort into this idea until 1.0 is finished.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

I don't think this makes it easier - it's yet something different for new users to learn how to use and for Paul to figure out how to do. ;)

But like I said, someone should go ahead and add this as a request for when we're finally doing them. :D:D:D

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

I submitted a request.
Obviously you would need a central interface for all events whether they are called by walls or the usual way. That way you can keep track of all events affecting a given square.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

That's a good point, Shadow Stranger. We would probably (at least on the developer's side) need to have an idea about which events take priority in case say wall, zone and regular event chains all happen on the same cell.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

yeah, there is some kind of logic to the ordering of events now, IIRC like this:
(and someone who knows more about this can correct me if I'm wrong)

an event happens if party attempts to enter first
then zone (step event)
then placed events happen

Theoretically, you could have ill-planned event chains that you never even thought of with this. Like a three combat chain back-to-back-to-back. If the "wall event" ever becomes reality, then I figure that it would change the order to this:

wall event
then an event happens if party attempts to enter
then zone (step event)
then placed events happen

but again, I realize that we're rapidly approaching version 1.0 and this is not a requirement or priority so this is again just conversating.

(but it would make a nice addition ;))

ST

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

I'm still curious......why would it not be
nearly as easy to use a step event to
accomplish this "wall event"????

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

It is just quicker, no need to manually place an event every time you place a wall of the relevant type.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

But step events run each time the party takes
a step, do they not? Putting a wall in place
would not affect that, would it? Perhaps
I don't know what a step event is or something.
Certainly, I have never used any such thing
myself and am pretty much guessing as to
how it works.

Here is what I suggest......

A) Every time the party takes a step, the step
event runs. It makes no difference what
wall is present. If you add another wall, so
what? The step event runs whether the wall
is there or not.

B) The step event checks to see what kind of
wall is present and does different things
depending on the type of wall. You can add
or delete walls as you please.....the step
event remains unchanged and works because
of the wall type that you have placed.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

B) comes close to what is whished, however, step events are tied to a square, and a square can be surounded by 0 to 4 walls. This means that the step event would have to check which wall is north, east, west, south of the square, and from where the party comes.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

I think Paul has it right, and it's even easier than what I think is the way to go. :)

In Paul's scenario, the step event would check if there were walls, where these walls are and what wall they are. Depending on the answers, an event chain would continue or abort.

So what happens if two walls with conflicting events are triggered this way? Well, what happens when they're triggered by the wall-event method? The designer still has to pay attention to what she is doing. ;) Now, if we were talking about a random level generator (I think about this from time to time), then we would need a very tight ruleset I suppose, but the issues are the same for whatever method used to place events.

I don't mean to be cheeky by asking this, but how many people in this thread have tried anything like this with the current method and found the copying and pasting unbearable? 8'] I've created literally hundreds of designs for DC and copying and pasting events (or whole chains if you'd like) is really as simple as it gets.
I'm not knocking this request or the people in it, but a lot of times people suggest something because they've tried doing one or two events (for example) and weren't aware of DC can already do, or you know, whatever.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

Well, I admit I didn't think of the step event using checks for walls as a possibility. Paul gave a concrete enough example of how this would work, and I see how it could work this way (becuz I can picture how to go about doing it without even getting it to work... I'd have to sit down and write it out in script or logicblock to make it work but that would be easy enough)

I'll give it a go sometime here soon when I'm not living off of 8 hours of sleep in four days 8)

ST

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

Yes.....the step event would have to go through
all these shenanigans every time the party took
a step. But that is what computers are good at.
Doing the same simple thing millions of times.
You---the designer---only have to do it once---
when you write the script. That is what you are
good at----writing a complex script and feeling
delight the first time it works. Of course, it won't
work the second time. But then its called
debugging. Ugh!

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

As long as it did not slow the game down any.
Presumably you would call "wall" step events before the other step events, the party goes through the wall before it steps into the square.
You could add a tool to the Editor to automatically place wall events as step events right throughout the level.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

I had already envisioned (in some of my scripting ideas) having many different checks versus status numbers (in quests/ASLs) that would run every single step in every square/level/dungeon/overland. I did do a little playing around with this back before I had lost internet (like middle of last year).

Doing step checks every step has no slowdown that I could see... I imagine you wouldn't see any slowdown unless you had complex multilevel event trees with thousands of possibilities.

ST

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

That would be your business. We process the step events
in order from 1 to 8. Presumably you would use #1 as your
wall event.

Just tell the editor that you want the step event
to occur in ALL zones.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

Paul already answered this, but just to be clear, using a step event means that you don't have to place events throughout your level. :) You just create the event one time and have DC check every time the party takes a step.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

I was confusing step events with placed events. If it only has to look at 0-4 surrounding walls that would not be too hard.
Edit:
You will need to encode for cases like teleporting, overriding the wall step event.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

We might have to add some sort of global
ASL entry that remembers the latest mode
of transportation. We could even put the
wall type in there for you to make things
simpler. Those kind of things are very 'local'
and easy to add / debug / document. Adding
a new event type is very much more painful.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

Seems to me that you would not need to. You simply set a flag variable in a quest or ASL (since I've been asked what this means before, I'll tell you: a flag variable is slang (?) for a true/false type of variable, as in the variable will always be either zero or one). Something like this:
event: quest "teleport_use" = 1
event teleport
event chain at local location
(if teleport_use = 1 then... blah blah - you know what goes here)
event: utilities quest "teleport_use" = 0

ST

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

If you are telling me that you can make it work
without my help, I am willing to believe. ;-)

But I am also willing to do simple things that
make life a lot easier for you. 'Tis all a tradeoff
and everything has its price. Let me know if
things get too messy and a little help would
make a big difference.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

Okay, I ported the Dark Queen of Krynn walls to a DC design. If anyone wants to try placing step events, the design can be found at:
http://ua.reonis.com/index.php?topic=981.msg9310#new
At some point I will need to correct a lot of the backgrounds. The design currently only contains the walls, none of the events.
You will find that level 22 is the Tower of Flame.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

=== Re-jacking this thread back to the topic of step-thru event. ===

Now that I've played around with this I have run into a problem. How do you "read" a wallslot? I mean, as designer I have creative control so I should know where my walls are, but is there a way to check conditionally? Like looking at Manikus' tutorial I see how to change walls with logic block, it shows how to change a wallslot into another (the empty/blank wall) and back. I see on the logic block event that the input "gates" have Level ASL as a choice, and that seems like the right idea; but how do you set that up? I mean, I think it might work if I set up ONE event to look at the "$Wall,3,5,north" and see if that is equal to wallslot 3.

By that logic (if it worked, since I haven't tried this do to my logic of the rest of this statement...) I would have to have a logic block event for 96 wallslots x 4 directions x "10 x 10" ( 10x10 being minimum size level)? 38400 events? Manikus did say that we can cut and paste events...:P

Ok, how about this:
The ASL scripts all come in pairs (get and set):

$GET_PARTY_ASL(String)
$SET_PARTY_ASL(String, String)

$GET_CHAR_ASL(String, String)
$SET_CHAR_ASL( String, String, String )

$GET_GLOBAL_ASL(String)
$SET_GLOBAL_ASL(String, String)

$SET_LEVEL_STATS_ASL( String, String, String )
$DELETE_LEVEL_STATS_ASL(String, String)

and I see there is a script that says $SET_LEVEL_STATS_ASL( String, String, String ) with string string string logically being $SET_LEVEL_STATS_ASL(level, stat, value). I do NOT see a get_level_stats_asl, so I'm stumped on this side as well. Any Ideas?

What would work for this AFAIK would be a $GET_LEVEL_STATS_ASL(level, stat) script, which we don't have :( then I could check every step the party coordinate location X,Y and the walls at X,Y.

ST
ps, If you know how to do this please tell me

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

Hmmmmm. a curious omission.
No idea why that happened. Perhaps
the 'LEVEL_STATS' were added much
later than the others and I only added
what I needed to produce a demo.

$GET_LEVEL_STATS_ASL will be added.
If you are doing work with DC, perhaps
now is the time to start using the soon-
to-be-released versions. It could use
some testing outside of the development
team. If so, let me know and I will supply
a version with your needed function. That
is, if Manikus says it is all right.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

Paul, if you could also add a "$SET_LEVEL_STATS_ASK" I would be so very happy. :) It would help a lot of us allowing teleportation outside of a stairs/transfer mod event.

Also, ST, you don't need to check for every wall and door for a sound, only that special one or two - it's easier to check for one or two, as a step or zone event than doing what you're suggesting, still Paul has a great solution. :D

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

Huh?

There is a $SET_LEVEL_STATS_ASL already.
IS that what you mean? Or what?

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

I got overexcited about what I could do, and typed too much, not to mention some of it was misspelled. (I know big surprise there.)

What I would really like is a $GET/$SET_LEVEL_STATS, by which I mean the current location, direction facing and level. Maybe it would be better to call it CURRENT_LOCATION or something. I know it's not the same thing exactly...

If we can already do this (quite possibly), none of us designers know how to do it. :(

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

Sounds delicate. Letting you change the party level
and such without telling the engine about it.
I think we better put anything general aside until
much later. How is this better/different from Teleport?

Now $GET could certainly be done without any
fear. Remind me after we get Charm tamed at
least a little bit.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

If you set up an initial X, Y position where you start at, then count steps, this can be done with ASLs I think. Something like PartyLocationX, PartyLocationY. And if you go orth you subrtact from Y, south you add, west you subrtact from X, east you add.
You can get facing with "$PARTY_FACING", and I think you can get level with a script as well...

ST

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

You may enjoy solving problems with
'Rube Goldbergs' such as this. That's
fine. But you should not fill designs
with such things. Something as simple as
'PartyX' should be solved with a simple
tool.

When you find a need for such a
thing, please ask for it rather than
inventing a monstrous mechanism that
will undoubtedly fail when someone else
invents the 'Double Step' ability or
something. I know that FRUA invited you
to do things in strange ways because it
could not be changed. DC is not like that.
Yet.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

These are not 'LEVEL_STATS' variables. These
are 'PARTY' variables. Is there no way to fetch
the x, y, and level? I see there is a $GET_PARTY_FACING.
If not, it is a definite breaking of symmetry and
needs fixing. A cursory examination indicates
that x, y, and level were somehow omitted.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

I agree with you, that X, Y location and level should be something available for scripting purposes; and I think having built-in functions is far cleaner and better working than script building them myself. But if you have the ability to "get" X, Y facing and level; then would that mean having the ability also to "set" X, Y level and facing?

ST

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

To answer the earliest question first, I would want to use a script in place where I can't use an event, or at least haven't figure out easily. What I originally wanted to use this for was the following - you're walking in a deep dungeon counting the gold you scavenged off the body of bogey man you just surprised while he was easting his porridge, and suddenly your torch goes out. No big deal, but as you search for your flint and steel you realize that you took them out to put more gold in your pack and must have forgot to pick them back up. I wanted to handle this by having two versions of the same dungeon; one that is lit and one that is dark. If the dungeon is larger than 8 squares, I can not figure a way to do this (8 is the number of entry points). I figure that I would need to know 3 things for this to work; level, location and facing.

ST as for your possible solution, I am in agreement with Paul, but possibly for different reasons. I have written a lot os scripts for DC, more than anyone else I wage, but this sounds too complicated and laborious to be worth the pay-off. :)

Perhaps most importantly, this is not a game stopper. Which by our previously agreed upon parameters means that we don't need this before version 1.0. :)

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

I gotchya on that one. Paul already stated that he's not worried about making new revisions just for me. My actual problem is: I cant become a programmer on this so I could make my own changes... And this means I have so many requests its ridiculous.

I have read that you have to make a plan and stick to it to actually make commercial releases of games/software if you work on a programming team, so I understand completely where you are coming from.

Besides, with the new scripting of SAs I can do a lot more than I could before... and this includes quite a few of my feature requests from before. And I need to turn this into some mods or all my script play is a moot point anyway ;)

ST

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

Actually, ST, the more you ask the better the chance is that we will slip something in...not promising, just saying. ;)

Paul and I are doing this project for various reasons, one of which is allow people who want to use DC to do what they want with DC. There are of course some caveats, like the fellow who posts every six to nine months about revamping the system to 4th edition (not going to happen), but maybe some day we'll be far enough along that he can adapt it himself via scripts and art, etc. But there are other things that are requested that are more realistic and they get added weight because they come from people who actually work with the system and are active in the community. :) The trick is to stick with the game plan so that the project gets "done" enough so that everyone can use it - version 1.0.

So, don't hesitate to ask for stuff now, who knows. :) We especially need to hear about stuff that we've forgotten - I know that there must be something, probably a lot of little things.

Re: Feature request - wall step thru event
 

actually I think I found something forgotten and I posted it here:
http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/...d.php?t=101496

ST