Does he lie?
 

Does He Lie?
by Charles Krauthammer

You lie? No. Barack Obama doesn't lie. He's too subtle for that. He ... well, you judge.

Herewith three examples within a single speech -- the now-famous Obama-Wilson "you lie" address to Congress on health care -- of Obama's relationship with truth.

(1) "I will not sign (a plan)," he solemnly pledged, "if it adds one dime to the deficit, now or in the future. Period."

Wonderful. The president seems serious, veto-ready, determined to hold the line. Until, notes Harvard economist Greg Mankiw, you get to Obama's very next sentence: "And to prove that I'm serious, there will be a provision in this plan that requires us to come forward with more spending cuts if the savings we promised don't materialize."

This apparent strengthening of the pledge brilliantly and deceptively undermines it. What Obama suggests is that his plan will require mandatory spending cuts if the current rosy projections prove false. But there's absolutely nothing automatic about such cuts. Every Congress is sovereign. Nothing enacted today will force a future Congress or a future president to make any cuts in any spending, mandatory or not.

Just look at the supposedly automatic Medicare cuts contained in the Sustainable Growth Rate formula enacted to constrain out-of-control Medicare spending. Every year since 2003, Congress has waived the cuts.
Mankiw puts the Obama bait-and-switch in plain language. "Translation: I promise to fix the problem. And if I do not fix the problem now, I will fix it later, or some future president will, after I am long gone. I promise he will. Absolutely, positively, I am committed to that future president fixing the problem. You can count on it. Would I lie to you?"

(2) And then there's the famous contretemps about health insurance for illegal immigrants. Obama said they would not be insured. Well, all four committee-passed bills in Congress allow illegal immigrants to take part in the proposed Health Insurance Exchange.

But more importantly, the problem is that laws are not self-enforcing. If they were, we'd have no illegal immigrants because, as I understand it, it's illegal to enter the United States illegally. We have laws against burglary, too. But we also provide for cops and jails on the assumption that most burglars don't voluntarily turn themselves in.

When Republicans proposed requiring proof of citizenship, the Democrats twice voted that down in committee. Indeed, after Rep. Joe Wilson's "You lie!" shout-out, the Senate Finance Committee revisited the language of its bill to prevent illegal immigrants from getting any federal benefits. Why would the Finance Committee fix a nonexistent problem?

(3) Obama said he would largely solve the insoluble cost problem of Obamacare by eliminating "hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud" from Medicare.

That's not a lie. That's not even deception. That's just an insult to our intelligence. Waste, fraud and abuse -- Meg Greenfield once called this phrase "the dread big three" -- as the all-purpose piggy bank for budget savings has been a joke since Jimmy Carter first used it in 1977.

Moreover, if half a trillion is waiting to be squeezed painlessly out of Medicare, why wait for health care reform? If, as Obama repeatedly insists, Medicare overspending is breaking the budget, why hasn't he gotten started on the painless billions in "waste and fraud" savings?

Obama doesn't lie. He merely elides, gliding from one dubious assertion to another. This has been the story throughout his whole health care crusade. Its original premise was that our current financial crisis was rooted in neglect of three things -- energy, education and health care.

That transparent attempt to exploit Emanuel's Law -- a crisis is a terrible thing to waste -- failed for health care because no one is stupid enough to believe that the 2008 financial collapse was caused by a lack of universal health care.

So on to the next gambit: selling health care reform as a cure for the deficit. When that was exploded by the Congressional Budget Office's demonstration of staggering Obamacare deficits, Obama tried a new tack: selling his plan as revenue-neutral insurance reform -- until the revenue neutrality is exposed as phony future cuts and chimerical waste and fraud.

Obama doesn't lie. He implies, he misdirects, he misleads -- so fluidly and incessantly that he risks transmuting eloquence into mere slickness.
Slickness wasn't fatal to "Slick Willie" Clinton because he possessed a winning, near irresistible charm. Obama's persona is more cool, distant, imperial. The charming scoundrel can get away with endless deception; the righteous redeemer cannot.

http://townhall.com/columnists/Charl...18/does_he_lie

Re: Does he lie?
 

Quoted from the the front page "Townhall.com: The Source for Conservative Political News, Cartoons, Issues and Blogs".

Not exactly neutral or unbiased stuff here - even at a quick glance of the main page I noticed one of the bulletin points that read "Glenn Beck's New Book FREE From TH Magazine", (and then of course I asked myself if people who don't take advantage of this awesome offer actually pay money for Glenn Becks thoughts).

Just wanted to make that clear so nobody would assume this was from a respected or reliable source ;).

Carry on.

Re: Does he lie?
 

Really close to what my reply was as well.

Was hoping to get a bit more bang for my buck out of you. I guess you are trainable after all...

Re: Does he lie?
 

If by trainable you mean eyes of the ninja, then yes. :)

Re: Does he lie?
 

so what if it is biased? show me anything on eitherside that is baised, it can't be done. Refute what is said not attack the messenger. Some very good questions are asked: if there is such a savings from medicare to be found why hasn't it been done already? Anyone care to answer the question or just complain that it is asked, or prehaps dimiss the question based on who asked it? How about this question if it is the high cost of healthcare that caused the problems, why all the talk about the high cost of the war? or the Debt? Or any of the other things blamed for the recession?

Re: Does he lie?
 

Well I mean, if you like it biased, good for you. There are some things I like that I know aren't good for me, yet I still indulge in them. Coca Cola, for example. It's all poison but it damn well tastes good.

I am simply letting everyone else know this is from a site that is carrying special offers to own a free copy of Glenn Becks book. Things like that speak volumes about their target market, which is when we know we're pretty much smack-bang in the middle of the place where people like Glenn feels comfortable (besides the mental hospital, that is). A place of paranoid megalomania, with a hint of occasional weeping for no reason whatsoever.

Re: Does he lie?
 

ROTFLMAO and you assesment of Glenn Beck isn't biased? Now I couldn't help but notice you were still unable to refute anything, you stuck with the "their bais" position. That's fine by me, where I come from that speaks volumes (as per you own assement) You'll find the difference between me and the vast majority of people you'll meet in life, I don't condem bais while having my own bais. I do question those that condem bais while having their own bias, because it's hypocritical and self serving, but to each their own. What ever floats your boat.

Re: Does he lie?
 

You can't argue with stupid or childish and you can't win versus argumentative for argument's sake. It doesn't matter whether you agree or disagree, just mentioning his name or making a quote is his win. Reason? Conscience? That crap's for lame humans, not superstars or killers.

Re: Does he lie?
 

It's "Bias". Shocked you aren't more familiar with the spelling.

Re: Does he lie?
 

Not exactly...

But I see you have once again ignored the message, and have attacked the author...

We are still in wait of a rebuttal to Joe Wilson's "You Lie", which, has been reviewed by the committee, and they have changed some words in the obamacrae bill.

Strange how that works...

In order to gain enlightenment in politics, one must see it and accept it from both sides. For every article written from the right perspective, there is one from the left. Therein lies the truth of politics, an issue that is clearly defined becomes shrouded in rhetoric, and only the fools become fooled by their chosen talking heads. Without investigative and counter articles, one either accepts or denies the issue, and there have been way too many issues of late to just deny. And by you not providing us with counter points, you have become trained to ignore the issue, attack the author, and challenge the creditability of the hosting web site. Thereby placing yourself in the league of the biased left.

Furthermore, the democratic party of today is the one in which evolved from the slave owning politicians of our forefathers. Ironic how ex-president Carter can call the racist trump card...But that is another story altogether.

I might publicly disagree with the website, how the article is written etc...But I do want to see more about the points that were made. Moreover, I want to see what the reaction is to the fraud, waste and abuse of the current system. Too me, that is where the initial focus should have been placed. Let "us" fix the current broken system...Then we shall move forward...

At this rate we can look forward however. For POTUS has clearly made some headway to secure his position as a one term POTUS.

Re: Does he lie?
 

I disagree about attacking the author, as I find it's far more fun to attack the messenger. That way I am assured a provoked response akin to what i'm seeing here :).

In other news, Kanye interrupting the president was alot worse than our nutcake Joe. Just disrespectful!

Re: Does he lie?
 

you shouldn't be shocked I don't worry about the spelling that much I know there will always be some do gooder come along and correct it, usually the ones that try to use mispelling as point for them while being unable to refute anything else.... I got'sa give you a bone or two. :P

Re: Does he lie?
 

Really now?

My how you have you so easily forgotten post#12!

http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/...=101004&page=2

As far as that second comment, I have no idea what you are on.

Re: Does he lie?
 

He's an exception 'cuz he's stupid.

Hey, what happend to "I post them, you decide"? ;)

Re: Does he lie?
 

That is what I'm here for, but on ocassion, some folks get off the path, and need nudging.

I mean we all enjoy your comments.

Sometimes, we even set small samples of food out for you. ;)

However, here you have gotten away from the issue, and attacked the article, just like Nancy has trained you to do. Stay within the lines, and whatever you do, don't go outside the box. Deny, discredit the story, or the website, or the author, just don't engage in the topic. For the real real issue is the topic, and people calling it for what it is, if it smells like it, smears like it, and it comes from the White House, it must be warmed over crapola, sooner or later, the fit is going to hit the shan, and there will be a movement of people there to observe who catches it. :)

Re: Does he lie?
 

I heard Glenn Beck is looking for a roommate.

Re: Does he lie?
 

I know a fellow, who knows some fellows. Shall I forward your contact info?

Re: Does he lie?
 

That depends, do stuffed animals count as "fellows"? :P

Re: Does he lie?
 

What a crock. Routinely offer not much more than smoke, mirrors, and the boogie man as the topic So the act is like ya got the big secret revealing, only we are so blinded we can't see it but the day will come we'll all be PWWWNZERED? Please! It hurts to laugh this much. STOP! :P

An amatuer could point out the intellectuial dishonesty in the OP artticle. Smoke and mirrors job no less. Facts are there but they do not connect.

The real issue about it is...

why should I or anyone care about a question being asked, if not to find an actual answer, but to fit a politcally convient pre-concieved answer? Sounds like a method that serves the party member, but not the citizen. In other words if it smells like bullshit, I watch my step so I don't step in it. :)

Re: Does he lie?
 

Then point it out, the reason to do so is to further the discussion and come to some reasonable solution... one that sure as HALE won't be found by talking about the messenger, author the website it came from, or that you don't have too. Any position that can't stand to answer questions is a weak position at best, true bullshit at worse.

Re: Does he lie?
 

Bah, don't explain the logic to 'em, you'll ruin all my fun. :)
If they know the reason why nobody is giving the rIdoNkuLas article a second look, they'll stop crying about me ignoring it. And seriously, how weird would that be?

Re: Does he lie?
 

got to love this American ride ;)

Re: Does he lie?
 

That is fun the part about, observing you going about on a tirade.

Re: Does he lie?
 

So that's why you're whining I won't address your "article"! :)

Re: Does he lie?
 

Whining! You are the one speaking about stuffed animals to keep you safe and warm at night. ;)

I have no-concern about what you say or don't say about the article. My plan was to get it posted and read. And that has been accomplished. The rest is all icing on the cake. :D

To actually expect you to take the article for a literary, logical, and intellectual piece, is far removed from me. That's why I do not post from huff post here, you would actually read it, and add content to it. What's the fun in that?

I do however expect you to go into a diatribe about everything related to the article, to include who posted it, who authored it, and who hosted it, that's the "astro-turf-America" in you. And that has been accomplished as well.

And I'll wager you are just ecstatic about POTUS placing a hold on additional troops in Afghanistan and evaluating the whole situation before he confers upon any other experts to come anywhere near to making a decision about how many, or if there will be a troop surge, all the while pulling all of the speed bumps away from lawmakers to get obamacare through the house at break neck speed!

Re: Does he lie?
 

Let me guess, the only stuffed animals you ever saw were ones you killed yourself, lol. *Bam*

Yeah, was just checking is all, and if this was indeed your point and expectation level then it's all gravy. Had I known this was your intent all along, I wouldn't have bothered with stupid things like logic and reason ;-/. But, I know I enjoyed this more than any other post you made, so this is most certainly a change I can believe in :D. (Mental note: "Do this from now on").

And face it, without me nobody would post in your threads. You need me.

Re: Does he lie?
 

Congress has never cut Medicare, even when the 45% limit was met for two consecutive years (2006 & 2007), as per the law. Not one example of Congress ever cutting Medicare can be given.

http://townhall.com/columnists/Charl...18/does_he_lie[/QUOTE]

Re: Does he lie?
 

See there you go, making an ass out of yourself again, by assuming I shoot harmless creatures. *Zing*
I don't, that is fairly known around these parts. Now fishing, that is something I enjoy, and at times my bait and tackle has landed a liberal doozie! *Reel squeal*

Most folks here know this is the conservative side posting, most don't want to read it, goes against their grain. Other's stay away due to your diatribe wall of texts, endless commissions on nothing, and overall attacks of the author, and not the message itself.

Some understand, and move along.

And needing you here? It would be boring without you here, my post count would be several less, and I would not have anybody to antagonize, *unintentionally*. ;)

Re: Does he lie?
 

So in a sense, you owe your existance (and persistance) here, to me :).

Re: Does he lie?
 

Well of course, not!
Only the last few hundred postings, ever since "Wizards and Warriors" and "Morrowind" have faded from the topic threads.

Re: Does he lie?
 

The fault in your plan is that by examining the biased left and biased right articles you are not actually getting the complete picture, but the picture the right and left providers want you to see.

In politics as well as news, bias info is inherently faulty, at risk to imperfect human motives, and should be screened as such and clearly marked as such.

Re: Does he lie?
 

The real reason the article author sucks is belief that healthcare should be provided differently based on immigration status. Behind the bias lies a faulty premise, a lie at odds with the truths compassion and mercy.

Re: Does he lie?
 

OK, there's a lot that's been said in this thread, and I shan't address it all.

I will say that Obama could be working with the majorities in Congress to ram stuff down the throats of the Repugs -- which is what the author appears to want. But, neither the author nor most right wing pundits understand the man. He's a Con Law professor, so he's used to waiting... and waiting... to hear the arguments and address things in due time. In our current 24/7 news heyday that flummoxes people. But, I don't believe it phases him much.

For me, this is a good thing. A leader who lets stuff play out and then comes in at the 11th hour is fine by me. I understand where he's coming from.

As for Chewie's notion that immigration status doesn't matter, I do disagree. But I offer the following comment that I posted on Oasis regarding Obama's health care reform stance:

Re: Does he lie?
 

Are we really discussing not giving aid to a sick or injured person based on immigration status? If John the illegal yard mower cuts off his thumb we're just going to let him bleed? Are we going to deny pre-natal care to Mary the illegal pregnent maid as well? Are we going to turn our doctors and nurses into immigration enforcers? This is audacious!

Those illegal people do get treatment here everyday and it won't stop. Somebody pays and that somebody is everybody. That won't change either.

If we are making payment coverage plan, we might as well include everyone who is going to have a charge. Moral perogatives aside, it simply makes sense to have a plan that is prepared for what is actually going to happen, rather than pipedream notions of how things should be.

Also, This whole "did he lie/ should illegals be covered issue" is a big artifical wedge issue push forth by the GOP. Who's motives are to create failure for their oppenents , not solve our complicated and serious problems.