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This would explain why S&P is thinking about taking away the U.S' AAA credit-rating..

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Oops, don't let 'SW' see this! He might get antsy about propaganda directed against his "spender in chief"!

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Been having withdrawal symptoms huh? :P

Why would I get antsy? He inherited this from its previous gatekeeper, who made it mushroom for 8 years up to the point where they had to add EXTRA digits to it, lol. Like I said, our guy has his hands full and his work cut out for him atm.

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Yeap, G.W. spent all those billions for the auto industry, just so he could send them to bankruptcy, then claim 70% of government ownership! Right!

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I see a potential blog-entry.

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That was then, this is now...


Someone please tell me what we achieved by bailing out the auto manufacturers, besides propping up the UAW...

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That about sums it all up.

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We have a great economy and plenty of potential to outgrow the debt. Don't believe the chicken littles or the little boy blues.

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[interuption]
I thought little boy blue was the one that was asleep when he was supposed to be working. Perhaps you meant "the boy who cried wolf"?

Ok, resume discussion of the topic.
[/interuption]

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I betcha he blew his horn like crazy even though he woke up too late or in this case the money is spent! ;)

Or the Andrew Dice Clay version. ... he needed the money.

whatever, I decided to give the 'boy who cried wolf' a break.

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I honestly feel we need to stop breeding like common house flies. Even with all the death we hear about, our population still grows.
I think that 3+ kids today is selfish and irresponsible.

I think there's about 15000 babies born every hour.

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Add to that the government take-over of civilian industry and nobody can stand in our way!

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I love how there is no problem whatsoever when we plunder oil wells and have a vice president who works for Haliburton, but when we try to save the auto industries and actually tell the public we're doing it, then there is an issue. The only difference here is the previous admin did it all behind closed doors, whereis this one informed the public about it from day one. I think it's time for a tea party.

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Some days your posts make perfect sense, then others they ramble about nothing, yet today you have placed the icing on the cake. Soon, we will be the United Socialist of America, and he did tell us!

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Now, now Felix. Let's not start with your typical undercut insults. I agreed to discuss this simply because you asked me to and were seemingly missing our spirited debates and/or me. If you're still bruising from previous smackdowns don't drag it in here eh? Perhaps venting on a blogspace or something like I suggested. But let's try keep this discussion civil or not have it at all. Besides, the members and moderators even crticised your threads as rambling and confusing - not mine.

And now that that's sorted. :)

There are many things in the USA that are socialized. Schools, police & fire departments, emergency services, the civil service. Even if the country was heading toward socialism, which it is not (at what point does a 3% tax increase for the filthy rich equal socialized govenrment? lol) it would most likely improve everything from healthcare to energy consumption. Just look at Europe and how "grown up" they are in policies, practices. They are way ahead of the USA as far as healthcare goes for example, and, despite the lies told by the neocons, the healthcare in most of Europe is equal to (even better) than the US.

The economy fell to pieces under GW, and now, after one hundred and some days of Obama actually working FOR the interests of the people instead of working against them, economists are already predicting an end to the recession. My god, an end to it already! Do you see what a good heart, a level head and a lack of greed can do? Fix things, that's what.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090527/...nomic_recovery

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Insults? Hardly, just the facts! Which I can handle, but apparently you might not be able to, or you would not begin by whining in type about your last go around.

Now that has been clarified, either move on, or move along!

Yes we do have many accessories that are socialized here. However, when was the last time the government took over a civilian market business through direct tax money?

I have spent 14 years abroad, and am married to a mainland European. Her family dislikes the current system, and would like to see the system of days gone by return. Here, socialized health care? All one really needs to do is understand Medicaid and Medicare, and presto, the USA has had socialized health care for over 30 years. Why spend trillions to create something that is already there? Or is that where the lack of greed and level headiness comes into play?

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....You just accused me of rambling and that my "posts don't make sense" somedays. I pointed out this was the very criticism I gave to you previously, along with many other members of the board including board moderators. I did not bring it up, you did. Nor did I mention your name in a thread that had no posts by me in it, you mentioned mine...At least own that. Or read above to confirm it.

I am happy to be here, to have this discussion and am intrigued that you invited me here, so lets have it, but minus the bullshit, k?

I don't know when. It's odd, but just because it has never happend does not mean it is sinister. At a press conference, when questioned about it, Obama said he's not looking to own the auto-industries, just bail them out of their messes. The government has chosen to take over in a time of dire need and deliver them a lifeline. What is so wrong with this? I mean, if they don't relinquish their "ownership" of these companies I might be like "Wtf are they doing?" But they say they intend to, so let's see. What do people actually think is happening here...that the government will start taking over all the companies in the USA and we will all work for the first black president? It's ridiculous, unrealistic and bordering on conspiracy-theorist. This isn't something that can go unproven though, we will see if this is what happens in the next year or so.

You honestly think that medicare and medicaid work? The HMO's and pharmaceutical companies dominate it, and it has become so corrupt and discriminatory to the point where it is simply broken. In theory, it is a good thing, but in practice, it sucks. Ask Roberthebard about his experiences with it, and tell me if it is "Universal". If you don't know form your own experiences how broken it is, I can assure you, it is. Profit, greed and medical discrimination are the main problems. Medicare has become just one giant HMO.

You say "her family dislike the current system". In the USA or in Europe? If in Europe, where? Because each country is different, some are not fully universal, but most are. And pretty much all of them work better than the USA. In Ireland, I can visit the doctor for $30. That's without insurance. My prescriptions cost me around $6. The act of seeking out and buying medical insurance is very rare over there and most people only have it if it's given to them by employers as a perk. Why? Because it is not necessary like it is in the USA. The same visit, uninsured in america would cost me around $200-$300 maybe more as I haven't checked in a few years.

Before I had insurance, I went to the ER one time in the USA for a chest X-ray. All in all, I paid over 2k for a thirty minute visit. I was greeted by countless letters in the mail, with the names of doctors and the hospital and all kinds of charges that I knew nothing about. I imagine the prices have gone way up since then as this was years ago. After that, I had to get insurance, paying this company money every month, hoping that they wil "approve" of my claim when I need them to cover me and even then, they don't cover me entirely. The US healthcare system needs to be redone. Somehow, someway, universal, socialized or whatever it needs to be changed.

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And I thought the "discussions" I had with my friends were bad. Civilised scratches are still scratches. But it's fun to read your fights. :)

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The 'NEW' GM - Government Motors! Yey... What a waste.... :animated_scratchchi

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I used to feel the same, but it kinda got boring after the first year.

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Year...? When did I miss this party?

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you mean it hasn't been at least year of you and Felix sparring with words? Seemed like it to me, but then, I've never been good at keeping track of time over the long term.

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LOL no. Simple logic my friend, Obama hasn't been president a year - before that, Felix was a happy little sniper. Now, there was a period where he'd make 2-3 posts every day so it may have indeed seemed like a year but since Current Events was nuked I think he's been bloggin or something. I've rested until now but I think he missed me :D.

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You might want to adjust your scope because this post missed. :P

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LOL Yep, pretty bad. I hear the hit to our economy letting them GM simply fail would have cost us alot more and the goverment spokespeople have been persistent in explaining taxpayer ownership as short-term. These facts are enough to sway me to be patient and optimistic. After all the money is already spent. Also, I am (or was) a loyal Chevy customer so color me biased in wanting a great comeback.

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Felix that was very naughty of you, and if you do not behave, you will not get the nice present I got you for your birthday (Unique Alpine TPG-1 ) :)

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Miss? Hardly! That is what is known as "Target, cease fire"! Or, on a forum like this, silence!

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I always behave, I always give compliments, however, some people take compliments and misconstrue them into insults, insecurity I suppose!

Now about that present. GM is headed to bankruptcy protection Monday, their stock closed at $.075 a share today. However since they used federal funds to pad their failure, they will be held accountable to the government for their future. That means a higher level of initial risk, but a long slow return over time.

I bought 10K shares of Ford at $.84 a share, thou that is different due to not using federal funds to pad their losses and wasting trillions of tax payer dollars, they chose to lose their own capital and shareholders monies instead. That means on the recovery and future they do not have to answer to the government. They closed at $5.75 a share today.

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Hmm, I 'm surprised they're down a little from your last update of $6.26. Still good though.

I just heard this morning that a Canadian company is making a bid for the European division of GM.

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No concerns, really. $1.80 is my low bail, holding it for 20+ years is my long term bail. Who know's, it might be gifts for new born grandchildren!

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..or maybe set up your bestest Ironworks friend!? :)

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Your vanity has once again taken over. You know it was planting season, you even posted back to the post! Now it's growing season, which allows a bit of time to be resourced elsewhere, and I do like to watch people circling their wagons.

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My vanity! I guess this is one of them "compliments" you speak of. So...thanks?

Btw, what are you growing? Wait, let me guess...Limbaughs! An army of of them!

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<span style="color: lightblue">Which is why the debt has been generally shrinking for the last twenty years or so? Oh, wait.</span>

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Yes it has shrank during the last 20 years, during a time of economic expansion and we have shrank another massive deficit before within the last 100 years during another period of expansion.

History tells us: Yes we can.

Helpful link with deficit graph:

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

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Nope, just the facts.

No, Pelosi's, we need a new plethora of "■■■■■ Galore" characters! However, we have hard clay soil here, so softies may not sprout exponentially as well as hard liners. On the other hand, tomatoes, onions, radish, cantaloupe, leaf lettuce, and Belgian variety cucumbers are doing fair to middling.