Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

I think I have now finished 50-75% (incl. quests/events etc.) of a DC adventure. Now I am wondering if I shall put a demo online - or perhaps only send one to those who would like to test it. One question is: What does anybody expect from a demo? One Level? 10 Levels? 10 events? 100 events?

Another thing I am still thinking about is to include speech in the adventure. Would anybody be interested in helping me dubbing - e.g. by recording some sentences I would send to him/her in written form? I think it could be a lot of fun. On the other hand, since I naturally do not want to reveal too much of the story, I am not sure if this can work... :D

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

I personally feel that one should make their demo just big enough to hook potential players. :) I would say that this could be done with anywhere from 1% to 10% of your final design, and it should always be the first 1% to 10%. :) I also have two other ideas along these lines.
1- The demo is not part of the game at all, but is a small, quick, mini-adventure in the same setting. I mean the kind of thing that can be played in 5 to 10 minutes. You can show off some of your graphics without giving away anything as far as the plot. Perhaps this mini-adventure/demo would contain back-story or what happens the day before the adventure begins or what happens the first day but told from the perspective of a shopkeep or farmer or some other 'mundane' character. :)
2- This is the method I plan on using when I get to the stage of thinking about demos. It is the kind of demo used in the GoldBox games. It is tightly controlled by the designer and only give away exactly what you want to give away. :) Here's a link to a short article explaining what I'm talking about and how to do it. :D:D:D
http://frua.rosedragon.org/pc/uanews/nlhtm03/demo.htm

I think voice would be great. :) But, I also appreciate wanting to maintain plot secrecy...
Here are 3 options that I can think of off the top of my head.
1- Voice artists would be the playtesters, or more precisely, the playtesters would be the voice artists.
2- Voice artists would only receive their lines, in small chunks (one or two sentences at a time) and not necessarily in order. (This doesn't seem too practical.)
3- Solicit the help of another community than DC. A couple of years ago, I was involved with a project doing an Animé RPG. There were plenty of people in the community willing to do voice work, but not nearly enough, so someone connected us with a couple of different groups who do voice work for games. :) Some people wanted money, but most people were willing to help for just the price of having their names in the credits and something to put on their résumés. I've long lost the links, but I'm sure a google search will yield lots of results.
4- (of 3) Contact a local theater group and see if they can help you - they may not have the time, but may know someone who does.
5- (of 3) You could do all the voices. :D:D:D I know in my DMing experience I've done many a silly voice (silly in how I felt, not necessarily how they sounded).
6- (of 3) Use snippets from online resources such as movies, lectures, sound clips, other games, etc.

:ninjas:

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

I think this is a really good idea. Thanks! (The approach described on frua.rosedragon is also interesting!)

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

Sounds good.

Yep. I think it is quite difficult to do that, especially if the artists are not professional.

I would have no problems with finding some artists since I have done several radio plays with some friends, however, none of us is a native speaker. So I wonder if - although I think we have a quite acceptable English - the outcome would be a little strange for native speakers playing the game...

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

Well, if you and your group all have similar accents, it could be that one race or nationality, etc. speaks with that voice.

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

Not only that, but an accent might add some flavor to your game. My rationale for this is that the Dnd game is loosely based upon the romantic notion of knights battling dragons to save the princess (along with wizards and other mythology). To me, the knights and dragons translates to the stories of King Arthur and the Knights of the round table. While there is no historic basis for King Arthur speaking like a modern day Englishman, it wouldn't be something that most of us Americans would complain about.

ST

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

As an aside, the tales of Arthur predate the stories of knights fighting dragons, which didn't start appearing until after the first crusade. :)

Also, the stories originate from different ethnic groups. The Arthurian tales are Anglo and/or Saxon in origin and the knight and dragon stories (I keep forgetting the princess, I guess you can tell which I always thought about more :D) are French in origin.

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

And of course you also had the Biblical influence dating back to the first century middle-eastern provinces of the Roman Empire. The imaginations of Christianized Europeans from that time forth were filled with visions of the armies of God wearing the armor of the Lord and wielding the sword of the Lord and doing battle with dark powers and evil in high places. This evil from above was sometimes represented in The Apocalypse [Revelations] as a fantastic Beast with the parts of different animals, or as a great red dragon.

And of course for the princess you had the 'bride of Christ' in the New Testament. This bride was the body-politic or kingdom of the faithful who's allegience was to God and to God alone. In the Old Testament it was the Israelites. In the NT it was Christians.

In the parables Jesus is the Groom awaiting marriage to a bride. Other parables depict him as a King awaiting the inheritance of a Kingdom. In both cases the parables were referring to the changing of the guard from the Old Testament administration and relationship between God and the twelve tribes of Israel to the new administration or New Kingdom and relationship between Christ and Christians [represented originally by the 12 apostles and the twelve embassies or churches mentioned in the New Testament]. Note the round table consisted of 12 knights as well. No coincidence there.

As for the Arthurian legends as we've come to know them today I'd say they were also largely influenced by the myths and legends and culture of European paganism as well. Particularly Celtic which is neither Anglo-saxon nor French-Norman but something older perhaps Pictish [similar to the Basque region of Europe which claims an older origin than the dominant European groups.]

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

Oh yeah and I too think voice is a great idea. I have been working on voice ideas for a while now too. Right now I am testing all the different text to speech software packages I can get my talons onto. I plan to experiment using a combination of text to speech software and lip-synch(chronization) software for use in DC.

Crazy Talk works great if you dont mind the tedium of editing every second of a sample to get it just right. It isn't hard to figure out how to do it, it is just a little too much like work for my tastes. lol. Then again, I guess so is editing graphics but I enjoy that. And maybe so is creating maps and editing them but I also enjoy that.

Most of the small text to speech programs available online are total crap unless you were looking for that vintage 80's WOPPER computer voice from War Games style. I beleive AT&T is at the bleeding edge of text to speech technology.

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

While some of the Arthurian tale may have roots in paganism just as Christianity does, it is very particularly a christian story, as the goal of the Knights of the Round Table are quested to find the Holy Grail.

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

Doesn't DAZ have a voice-to-lipsynch program??? I swear I remember seeing something about this.

There are various ppl working with new ideas for artwork and such, for example there was someone talking about using live actors for DC. If you use one of these voice programs it might make you the "go to guy" for anyone who wants information about it.

ST

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

It's a lyp-syncing program - you still need to provide the audio.

The mod that used live actors was already released. It's called "In the Service of Aldorf" by Sihram. It's the one that is 65MB is size. :)

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

It is really a good thought that different accents might give some special flair to the game... :)

Btw, I have not thought of doing animations combined with speech. I think in editors like e.g. Adventure Game Studio, it can quite easily be done (and should be done), but in DC (especially without animated sprites in the current version), it would be like trying (to quote Stephan) . I write this because voice-to-lipsynch programs were mentioned... :D

By the way, I would naturally not dub all events in the game.

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

One technique to consider for dialogs is just using multiple portraits over multiple events

For example, let's say you are having an actual dialog between two characters. You would have an image of each set up for a theatric conversation - by this I mean character A would be facing the front left and character B would be facing the front right. You would show the appropriate picture of each when their dialog is going on.

For monologs, you use a similar strategy of two portraits of the same character that you cut back and forth between as the various points of the dialog are reached.

For both of these techniques, a text event is used for each time a picture shows. This means you don't have to worry about timing like you would with an animation.

I wish I could say I thought of this, but hans used both of these in various demos he has done for FRUA. I think they looked really good. :)

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

Getting a little ahead of myself [or of DC development] aren't I? Well, doesn't hurt to be prepared does it? ;)EDIT: Until DC catches up I can use my experiments with lip-synched animated NPCs in the FPSCreator version of my DC designs. :3dglasses:


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Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

I didn't mean to imply earlier that you couldn't do this in DC now. :) You can. It's probably best to save it as an AVI so you don't have to figure out the timing for super large portrait files.

The only drawback, other than a lot of work, is that the download size for the design will be friggin' 'uge! ;)

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

This (both approaches) is what I am doing - combined with some additional tricks (of which I assume I am not the first one thinking of them...). In my adventure, there are 4 PCs that cannot be removed from the party (otherwise the game ends :D ), and I have several sprites for each of them (from behind - looks like stepping forward from the rest of the party, from side, only the faces from behind, annoyed, happy, angry etc.). It is also very nice to change between NPC-walls and closeups of the NPC (using several text events) and to combine NPC-walls with the from-behind views of the PCs (indicating who of the party is actually talking to the NPC).

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

Yep. However, AVIs would certainly be interesting for designs like "In the service of Aldorf".
I am absolutely no LARP-player, but for those who are, it would be an interesting option to transfer such a thing to a DC-scenario, including videos of key events.

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

Here are some screenshots from the Demo to show what I mean. Maybe I will remove them sooner or later - when the demo is finished, most probably.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/9...lands01no8.png

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/6...lands03ym3.png

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/9...lands05fj7.png

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3...lands02pg9.png

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

Another example from the game:

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/5...lands06ti2.png

An example: The two guys seen from behind belong to the party and are displayed using a sprite, the "mini-dragon" is a NPC-wall.

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/7...lands07gj8.png

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

Dinonykos, I like your included "help" in the game. Most games have like a demo level you play thru that teaches you various options/tricks you can use to finish your goals, and the part describing opening chests is a good move. I was thinking of this sort of thing after seeing something similar while playing a turn-based 3d combat game called Gladius where you make a school of gladiators to compete in the roman gladiator arenas.

If you have something that is a little different from the standard GoldBox style then it seems you should have some explanation as to how this works.

ST
ps and the artwork is superb too :D

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

Yep, I also included an explanation of how the simplified combat system works in the demo-Level. That level is similar to the Star Trek holodecks or those training rooms of the X-men (I am no expert on the latter, though, but they have something like this, don't they?). You can even decide to deactivate the security system at one point to start a "real" combat, which will get you some extra-experience points. The demo-Level is connected to the 1st level of the game, but you do not necessarily have to enter it. Btw, thanks to Manikus for the hints on demos!

:D :D :D

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

Genius! I wouldn't have thought of treating the view pane like a camera lense view from the PlayerCharacter's point of view. That looks like it works quite well. Can't wait to try the demo out! That is a great idea to impliment with 3d-models which can easily be spun around and posed without altering characters and then screen capped or saved to flattened image for use in DC.

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

That's a great idea. I think I will use something like that. :D So many possibilities are coming to mind that it's making me crazy that I can't work on DC projects now (not until December at the earliest I fear).

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

I guess I should have read all the posts before responding the first time. :)

Great artwork as usual, Dinonykos. This looks like a great demo. Having not played it yet, I am going to be so bold as to suggest it be advertised at the FRUA group too. I think when people over there see this, many of them will come over to look at what we're doing now. :D:D:D

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

There is one idea I had once that is similar to this. I thought of putting fists, guns, and other weapons or maybe anything the PC is carrying in hand in the view screen like in 3d games. If your not an artist the easiest to use would be rips from the earlier 3D shooters like DOOM, HEXEN, ROTT, etc. Of course it wouldn't be very practical for a DC game since it couldn't actually be used or animated [or could it?!] which is why I bagged the idea. I still may try some experimenting with the idea for other uses though.

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

SilentThief had a similar idea a couple of years back. I did up some art for him, but I don't believe anything ever came of this. If I can find it on my HD, I'll post it in the forums here, but I haven't seen it in a while. It might be attached to a thread here or inserted into a response via a link to imageshack. Might be worth trying to do a search of the forums if you're interested.

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

I do not want to spoil too much, but something like this will be included in my adventure... :D :D :D

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

Don't spoil anything, but feel free to tease us all you would like. :ninjas:

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

I have just put some new screenshots to the DC sectionof the FRUA forum. Re-reading what I posted here, I think it's time to finish my demo... :(

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

Oo - I saw, very nice screenshots! Very nice feel to the game...

Re: Demo yes/no? Speech yes/no?
 

I'm on my way to check it out now. :) I'm sure they will look awesome.