Ah, thanks Djinn! I didn't want to make Magik look silly there, but... ;)

MagiK, I don't think anyone WAS generalising people according to which group they belonged to - that was not why I posted. I just got the impression that *some* Americans felt embarrassed about their countrymen's rudeness. Now I know *I* would have been embarrassed if it happened in my country, but I didn't think they needed to apologise for something they didn't do. Like I said, we IW-members don't need convincing: we get plenty examples of great and respectful people from every country simply by reading their posts here, so the occasional rude one does not discredit his/her country. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Edit: Jim, sure, I'll give you that we only know Animal's side of the story, maybe I do like to think well of people if they give me no reason to think the opposite. ;) [img]tongue.gif[/img]
However, theoretically speaking, of course it might well be the case that he was being rude to them. To me, that still doesn't justify the way he was treated though. When I get snapped at in the supermarket or by whoever, my usual response is to give them a smile and a cheery "have a nice day". Sure, if they're rude to me, I can "justify" being rude in return, but is it going to be in any way constructive when I do?

Edit2: Oh and I do tend to agree about the troll pic Hugh... sorry :(
I love you mate but wasn't that slightly well...rude? Like I was just saying about being constructive... ;)

And I must add I thought Magik's comment in question WAS very rude as well, I'd already made a post to that effect. Going "EVERYBODY I've ever seen hassled at airports was being a total ass but that doesn't mean anything about you of course, just wanted to say I've never seen anyone getting that treatment who didn't deserve it"[/paraphrase] is pure baiting IMO. But that doesn't justify being equally rude in return (nice demonstration of what I said to Jim, right? :D )

Edit3 (man... :D ) Whoops, sorry Cloudy!!

[ 02-20-2003, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: Melusine ]

Just my opinion Yorick, but I think that this was both unnecessary and rude! [img]graemlins/nono.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]And as I said to Magik, who retracted his comment, I already made the point to Yorick, so it doesn't need any more commenting on.

It was a joke MagiK. ;) </font>[/QUOTE]<font color="#ffccff">DoH!! I was wondering about it, I didn't think you could really be that paranoid :D but I also know some people in real life that really are that paranoid [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

<font color="#ffccff">To one and all, I wish to apologize for offendign with my comment along the lines if you don't like the treatment stay away. It sort of struck me like the old joke...."A man goes in to see his doctor and says, Doctor, Doctor, it hurts when I do this (flaps arm around wildly) and the doctor replies. Well don't do that then."

Be that as it may, my comment was on the rude side and was insensitive to Animal in particular, however I am still rather peeved at the way everyone was dumping on customs officials in a whole hearted feeding frenzy. Especially those customs and security people who have the world trade center tradgedy on their minds...wonderiing..gee if I had just been a little more attentive, maybe those people would still be alive....they carry a terrible burden on their souls, how about a bit of compassion for them as well?</font>.

I can't speak for all Americans but feel that I'm fairly typical. When I see people in other countries burning the American flag or Bush bashing I tend to take it, at least in part, personally. This is especially true in countries where the US has given a great deal (ie. money, aid, volunteers, and lives in past wars). In the same manner when representatives of my country act in a poor manner, I feel embarrased and ashamed. Each one of us is part of the USA and share responsibility for both the good and the bad.

Just my opinion Yorick, but I think that this was both unnecessary and rude! [img]graemlins/nono.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]And as I said to Magik, who retracted his comment, I already made the point to Yorick, so it doesn't need any more commenting on.</font>[/QUOTE]Sorry(again). :( I posted this before I saw what you said. Last I'll say on it.

All I'm saying, Antryg, is that I don't think any IW member would hold it against you (or other Americans here) if one of your custom officials behaved rudely. They would definitely not expect an apology or change their minds about you. Just look at Donut's posts about his experiences.
I also disagree that you should take "Bush bashing" personally. I mean, I definitely can see that if you support Bush, you will *personally* feel bad when he's slagged off. But I know many Americans who oppose him quite strongly, so it's NOT a country thing. And that's what I was talking about here... a matter of entire countries. (Incidentally, the flag burning is another thing entirely, of course! The flag, contrary to Bush, does stand for the country as a whole. I mean, you can dislike Bush and like America, but if you burn the American flag, it's pretty clear whose side you're on).

Actually, was it Customs, Immigration, or the new homeland security force (I forget the agency name) that now checks bags at airports? Note, my attributing of personalities to these agencies that follows is ascribing a personality to *the agency*, not its individual people. Regarding customs - they are hardasses who are quite proud they are one of only 2 government agencies that actually MAKES money (the other is the IRS). Regadinging Immigration, they're mostly lazy a$$holes who are so used to denying everything (like 99.x% of all immigration requests, etc.) folks ask, it's second nature.

As for the new airport security federal agency, I found them to be nicer and more efficient that the contractor bums who'd been running the show in airports for years. I travelled in and out of the country around Christmas with hiking boots that set off every metal detector within 8 miles. Bad decision to travel that way on my part, and I got to spend a lot of time chatting with agents as they searched my shoes. Nevertheless, they were good about being nice ("I'm going to touch-search you here now") and keeping my stuff segregated from possible theft while they pulled me aside for 2-3 mins.

I don't know what sort of agency acted so egregiously to Animal, but it's wrong. If there is no government liability for this (which is likely the case), there *should* be. Ruining someone's computer is just wrong. 36 hours is just wrong.

Again - I'll mention this because it got buried:

ANIMAL :
I know a customs specialist (means "bigga da bossa" in Gungan) in St. Albans, and I am happy to see if he knows of any procedure you can undertake to exact a remedy. Unless you've got like $10K invested in your laptop (which you may, if you include the value of lost info) I would probably advise against hiring an attorney for any economic recovery. Now, if it's "outing" the behavior and newspaper coverage you want, an attorney may certainly be the way to go.

What this thread needs is some more info from Animal..PLEASE *hint*

Harleyquinn to answer your question from an Australian perspective.. yes you would have to submit to a full cavity search by two female officer in private if they had reasonable reason to require such a search (basically anytime they wanted to)

Even if Animal was surly and "bad mannered" (with a nickname like Animal nah :D ) that still does not warrent total disrespect of basic human rights or at least to be treated in a profesional manner. How can custom oficers expect people to be happy smiley after getting off a plane, which in Australia's case would be at least 12 but probably 24 hours of flying, sat in a cramped seat with no elbow room and treated like cattle. :mad:

What I would suggest is that the officers invoved in Animals case were probably newish to the job and not fully trained, possibly understandable with the ramp up in security these last few months.

And damn I still want to know wether they took you Animal and your *implant/bomb* to a public hospital for examination if they did this story is going to get big very quickly.

[img]graemlins/2cents.gif[/img]

Considering Richard Reed couldn't even light his shoe laces when he needed too how on earth did they expect you to light a bomb actually implanted inside you... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

But flippant comments aside I strongly recommend making a fuss about this Animal - its too much to just let it slide. May I offer my sympathy, I hope it didn't mess the trip too much for you...