Yes but Israeli soldiers entering refugee camps hunting for terrorists usually don't hit their marks. ;) Anyway my point was that no side is innocent and both of them need to cool off and back down some.

Good points in your second paragraph MagiK. [img]smile.gif[/img] Didn't think of that but that could explain the difference.

Israel strikes back, nobly killing two militants in a West Bank hospital.
____________________________________
NYTIMES:

August 22, 2003
Israel Kills Two Palestinian Militants in West Bank Hospital
By REUTERS


Filed at 1:53 p.m. ET

NABLUS, West Bank (Reuters) - Israeli troops shot and killed two Palestinian militants inside a West Bank hospital on Friday, extending a new spiral of violence that has smashed a cease-fire vital to a U.S.-backed ``road map'' peace plan.

The killings came as tens of thousands of angry Palestinians calling for revenge marched in the funeral of Ismail Abu Shanab, a U.S.-educated Hamas leader who was assassinated by an Israeli helicopter missile strike in Gaza city on Thursday.

Islamist militant groups called off a seven-week-old cease-fire after Israel killed Abu Shanab in an attack that followed a Hamas suicide bombing -- a relapse into tit-for-tat bloodshed that doomed previous peacemaking.

``We love martyrdom and we seek martyrdom,'' Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi, another senior Hamas political leader who survived an Israeli assassination attempt in June, told the crowd as it chanted, ``Revenge, revenge!''

Israel threatened more attacks on Palestinian militants. ``This is only the beginning,'' a senior Israeli security source said. ``We plan serious retaliation on the terrorist infrastructure,'' he added.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan said President Bush's main focus was on restoring Israeli-Palestinian dialogue broken off after the Abu Shanab killing.

Asked if Washington was going to urge restraint, he said: ``We have always said that Israel has the right to defend itself but we have also always pointed out that the parties, including Israel, need to keep in mind the consequences of the actions they take...the effect of those actions on the peace process.''

``All parties have a responsibility to do everything they can to end terrorism. I can't emphasize that point enough. If we are going to move forward in the peace process, terror must end and people must act to dismantle terrorist organizations,'' he told journalists traveling with Bush en route to Washington state.

Bush also announced a freeze on the assets of six Hamas leaders and five groups accused of supporting the group and ordered the Treasury Department to act.

MILITANTS CORNERED, KILLED

In the West Bank city of Nablus, witnesses said three Palestinian militants being sought by Israel were sheltering in a small rooftop room of Rafidya hospital when Israeli forces stormed up and surrounded the building.

They said a shoot-out ensued with soldiers firing into the room, killing two militants and wounding the third. All three were members of the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, an armed faction within the mainstream Fatah national movement of Palestinian President Yasser Arafat.

Israeli security sources said the troops targeted militants who had been hiding in the hospital for some time and were wanted for involvement in a suicide bombing in Israel on August 12 and some ambush shootings in the West Bank.

The Brigades claimed responsibility for the bombing, which killed one Israeli, and said it was retribution for army raids for wanted militants that continued sporadically after armed factions declared a unilateral three-month cease-fire on June 29.

Israel renewed search-and-arrest operations in Nablus and other occupied West Bank cities shortly after a Hamas suicide bomber killed 20 people on a Jerusalem bus on Tuesday, an attack that Hamas said avenged recent army killings of Palestinians.

On Thursday, the army reimposed a curfew on the city, one of the largest in the West Bank and a major stronghold of militants who have spearheaded a 34-month-old uprising for statehood.

Osama el-Baz, a special troubleshooting envoy of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, visited Arafat at his West Bank headquarters to deliver what the emissary said was a message warning of impending catastrophe.

``All sides have to take steps to avoid escalation and to implement the road map,'' Baz, who met Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom later, told reporters in Ramallah.

Baz was quoted later on Israel Radio as saying Palestinian Authority leaders requested more time from Israel to pressure Hamas and militant ally Islamic Jihad to stop attacks. He declined to elaborate on proposals discussed.

It's like a soap, it never ends.

I think that sums up the Palestinian viewpoint quite well.

Oh I don't know. The judge would normally take into account factors like provocation etc. If someone steals your property and you attack him in order to reclaim it, you are unlikely to get as rough a ride in court as your 'victim'.

"In 1973, the Mossad believed it had tracked its man to a tranquil Norwegian town called Lillehammer. One evening, the Mossad watched him board a bus with a pregnant Norwegian woman. As they got off at this bus stop, two Israeli agents jumped out of a car and fired 14 bullets. The Red Prince was dead. Munich had been avenged. But there would be no getaway this time. Norwegian police noted the license plate of the hit team's car, traced it to this safe house in Oslo and arrested six Israeli agents. And not only were members of the hit team behind bars, they had killed the wrong man.

The Israelis had killed a Moroccan waiter, Ahmed Bouchiki. He and his wife were expecting their first child in two months."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/...le318655.shtml

Yep - you have to admire acts of terrorism, huh?.

Point taken skunk, but shit happens, we're only humans after all, even the Mossad agents. But no matter how many Israeli screw ups you're trying to mention here in the future, it won't lower my respect for them. I'm just curious, why are you trying so hard to make it look as if the Israeli's are some ruthless horde of aggressors ? Did you take the time to look into the whole story behind all this, or is it that you just don't have any sympathy for them ?

I have a lot of sympathy for Israeli's - I believe strongly that they have a right to the state of Israel as created in 1948 - I just think that they don't have a right to anyone else's country.

They were given a vast expanse of land to establish a nation. Let them keep it, let them defend it. But don't let them expand it by force - others have a right to their own land too.

I don't blame Israel for the 1948 war - and I don't blame the Arabs either. The UN was and remains totally at fault for this mess - they never considered how the Arabs would react to having vast swathes of their land confiscated without recompense.

Israel has an arrogant attitude towards its neighbours because, as a result of its backing from the US, it is more powerful than them. I can also understand a 'siege mentality' from being surrounded by nations which still views the land upon which Israel stands to be their own. That's hard to live with.
But Israel doesn't help because it always ignores the interests of not only its neighbours but just about every other country (with the exception of the US).

What happened with the 1967 water project was a classic example of this - we'll just take the water and to hell with even asking to discuss a fair arrangement to share. Or indeed the example of the assassinations in Europe - to hell with submitting the evidence to the European governments and getting these guys extradited - we'll just send someone in to murder them.

Long term peace starts at the negociation table - the Arab league made a serious offer to Israel four years ago:
"Quit the occupied territories and we will recognise the state of Israel"

That was a major concession on their part - and had Israel accepted, it would have marked the normalisation of relations with its neighbours - but it refused. Why did they refuse?? It would have cost the state of Israel *nothing* to accept the offer and Israel would have had everything to gain from it.

Look at the 'roadmap for peace' - several nations spent the better part of four years of haggling and discussions to come up with the plan. It was judged by all (the US included) to be a fair and just settlement to both sides. The Palestinians accepted the document (with gritted teeth) - Israel tabled over 100 amendments...

So to sum up, I believe that Israel has a right to defend its borders - but I do not believe it has a right to extend them. I also believe that its habit of acting unilaterally in regional issues to be arrogant and its inability to accept compromise to be unreasonable. Finally, if Israel wants to treat 'terrorists' in a brutal fashion - that's understandable. But Israel treats all Palestinians as terrorists and therefore subjects all of them to brutal treatment - and that I find unacceptable.

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A single incident more than 30 years ago...wow you just piled on the evidence there guy...Im so overwhelmed ;) We can count more than 30 bombings by hamas this year alone.....try again.

Ummm you aren't palistinian by any chance are you? Im just curious. You really work very hard for their cause (on this forum at any rate) and I am interested in your motivations and Ideals. Obviously you and I are looking at history with highly different takes on it. I know I am not Jewish, nor Arab. I have no ties to either side one way or the other. So I just calls it like I sees it. Why are you so anti-Israeli? and Pro-Palistinian? If you don't mind my asking....I am seriously not trying to denigrate yourposition...just trying to figure out why we can look at the same situation ahve such vastly different assessments.
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Oops just read your last post (the one previous to mine....now Ill have to rethink what I asked you, since you clarified a lot in that post. I'll get back to ya [img]smile.gif[/img] Have a great weekend all Im outta here!
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if anything, it would appear that Skunk is pro-humanity and anti-short-sighted-aggression.

Hm, noble thoughts, however this is planet Earth, better get used to it.