Another Song of Ice Fire fan!! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...ons/icon14.gif

While I agree with you that D&D demons are not very powerfull, I have seen in multiple sourcebooks the 9 demons lord of Hell, and some of the Abyss, being refereed as quasi power (quasi god). So I think that a mortal being able to beat them is a little too much.

What I don't like about that series is that the main character get some extremely powerfull powers/items from gods, and I think it's an overkill. The term used to describe such campaign is "Maunty Haul" and it's never a good thing. I would love that series a lot more if the main character had never received such powerfull powers/items.

Those items remove all challenge. I can accept the Demon Lords getting defeated in an epic battle lasting 25 days and night, but I sure can't accept them getting defeated in one less than an hour.

So, my opinion is that story had potential. But no challenge and suspense is boring, in my opinion.

Since you are a fan of George R.R. Martin, you should know what I am talking about. The characters in a Song of Ice and Fire are all balanced, and you never know if they are going to die or survive. That's a good thing.</font>[/QUOTE]I actually read the Gord the Rogue series back when it was first released(last book was released in 1988 and I was a hard core gamer back then). I got a kick out of it then, but its not really what I read now. I used to like the Drizzt books, but now then seem a bit basic(though I did like the Entreri book). I do love Martin's books though(Can't say much more, but its just damn good stuff). Just wish he would write faster, hehe. Currently reading Steven Brust's "Taltos" books, and love them also (though they are way too short).

funny... i couldn't really think of any but the Baldur's Gate novel i read... it made go on a laughing trip... I don't know why... the whole book left me shock... it wasn't i expected... i expected something more serious and comedic when it is comedic... but this was just plain ol funny and it's dead serious... *smiles*

Sword of Shanarra. *shudders* Basically, a poorly written Lord of the Rings rip-off with boring characters and a predictable plot. I still can't believe I somehow managed to read it all the way through, but I really can't recommend it to anyone.

Oooooh - sometimes it's nice to see a really old thread revived :D

Anyone care to resurrect the "Library, bar" etc. review thread?? :eek:

I've never been able to just sit down and get the Bible done and away with... Such a pain to deal with that old English... Not that inaccessibility makes a bad book. I had a lot of trouble reading James Joyce's Ulysses, and Dante Aligherie's Comedy, but I won't deny the tour-de-force those books presented, the raw power of them.

But, the worst book I ever took the trouble to read? That's a tough one. I don't remember particularly bad literature well, but I'd say I found no redeeming value in the latter day Dune books. Herbert's work is best left alone...

Oblivion, get a modern day translation of the Bible such as The Message and I promise you'll find it extremely accessible. And it is very faithful to the original languages.

Dahlgren by Samual R. Delany was terrible.

After much thinking i found the needed book in my shelf of shame: Destiny by elizabeth haydon. That's it. Terrible, boring, very boring, extremely boring book. I doubt that even Nik Perumov could reached the current depth of antiskill. On the second thought-he already had.

<font color=pink>Hum. I tend to only read books recommended by my father or brother since they have the same taste in literature as me, so my choices are boiled down to one single book that I can't even remember the name of...we were forced to read it for AP Lit&Comp...about this english chick named Jane with an evil aunt and 3 cousins...falls in love with some ugly old rich man in front of a horse chestnut tree...ffs, I'll look it up...aha! DUH, Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte. I'm also adding The Scarlet Letter to that list. Both books bored me to death [img]tongue.gif[/img] </font>

Oh man. I'm distressed to see so many bad reviews of God Emperor of Dune (and the books after it) ;)

GEoD is certainly a different kind of story to the first three. I think it's more of a theoretical sociology treatise than an action-packed sci fi thriller. In writing it I really think Herbert was trying to accomplish different goals than he was with its predecessors. Alot of Leto's social engineering objectives are more or less explained in Heretics of Dune. Also, with regards to Leto's aloof high-and-mightiness, well, I think its a highly 'believable' character trait for someone who has seen (or indeed who has experienced) every epoch of human history through other-memory, and who has seen humanity's inevitable future through prescience. Leto does know everything, and as such he is totally alone, indeed totally 'unsurprisable' (he laments countless times the utter boredom of already knowing the exact unfolding of the future), yet despite this he is not made indifferent to the needs of humanity and maintains the Atreides 'nobility'. He follows the Golden Path as the only means of preventing humanity from destorying itself... the details of which are explained in the following book.

Leto doesn't explain himself in this particular installment of the Dune saga because Herbert knows he doesnt need to. The reader is on-par with the other characters in the story in being held ignorant to Leto's designs to alter the course of human social history through his millenia-spanning forced tranquility. I very much think that Herbert knew exactly what he was going to write in 'Heretics' as he was writing 'God Emperor', as practically all of Leto's actions are explained via the thousands of years of hindsight from the age of 'Leto the Tyrant' that the characters in 'Heretics' have.

Thus I think that in contrast to the first action-packed Dune trilogy, God Emperor functions more as an incredibly elaborate and emotional historical theory textbook for the action that takes place in 'Heretics'. And as such it works tremendously well. Also, I think that Herbert had the Dune saga as a whole in mind when he wrote these books, and God Emperor is the necessarily dry installment, absolutely laden with anthropological theory, in order to lay the groundwork for the later 'finale' books.

Alot of people obviously didn't have the patience for it (and I'll admit it took me a little while to get out of 'action' mode and into 'philosophically theorizing' mode in order to fully appreciate GEoD), but that's a real shame as I think Herbert offers some great philosophical ideas regarding the predictable patterns of human social engineering in this book. And after wading through all of the hard slog of it all (it took me twice as long to read this one as any of the other Dune novels due to the fact that I'd have to read a section, then think 'hmmmm I wonder what Herbert meant by that', then read the section over again [img]smile.gif[/img] ) you are really set up for an atmospherically rich treat with Heretics of Dune...

[ 07-11-2004, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]

Hiero man, I love philosophising books - why do you think I'm a sci fi fan in the first place! Sci fi at its best is about mans place and destiny in the universe, and it often makes me think a hell of a lot more than regular fiction.

However I do not think God Emporer is sci fi at its best. I'm glad you got so much out of it but I just plain disagree that its a deeper book than the rest. I don't think the others are action-adventure style by any means, they're just faster moving as the characters are actually involving. I don't have a problem with Leto being smug other than it makes it hard to sympathise with him, which Herbert quite obviously wants you to do. Also, as you say yourself, we regard Leto in the same way the other characters do - so why do they come around to his way of thinking when I don't! That should make their actions regarding him easier to understand, not harder! If they have the same outlook on Leto as me then they should react in the same way - they were unbelievable as given the same information as me they reacted in a completely inexplicable manner.

I personally didn't think he was slowing down and philosophising but instead he had written himself into a corner and had to go through the unfortunate process of writing a book he didn't want to in order to get out of it... The whole book seemed half hearted, poorly thought through, unbelievable, and just generally not thought provoking or fun to read. It read like someone caricaturing Herbert's byzantine-thriller-in-space style.

But Heretics and Chapter House were better. Not as good as the first three, but better than God Emporer.