No! don't stop! i'm enjoying myself! [img]smile.gif[/img]

And like you said..time stop....

you can't move out of area of effect if it comes at you from frozen time [img]smile.gif[/img] But you knew that already didn't you [img]smile.gif[/img] same with insect plague/earthquake....I believe their casting time is significantly [higher] than TS [img]smile.gif[/img]


But you saying our argument is based on TS and that it is therefore not fair is unfair as we have TS, you happen to be much better fighters and have constantly remind us that our weakling mages could do nothing whilst your brawny manly rock hard clerics are pounding on them with your big manly hammers.

Clerics have advantages too you know, its not unfair for a mage to have TS [img]smile.gif[/img]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Yggdrasil:
Insect Plague will work on anyone, and invisibility is not a defense.

You need to target the Mage to cast Insect Plague. You cannot cast on a invisible target, nor can you target the ground.

Sorry for all the disappointed egos, but it's true. And the reason people solo more often with Mages is NOT because they're more powerful, but because they're easier to play, especially when you factor in the foreknowledge of what's going to happen next.

You say that they are easier to play with, then proceed to say that, that does not mean that the Mage is more powerful? By this assumation, the hardest class to play with is the most powerful... ...

Try assigning a solo Cleric and a solo Mage to two people who've never played the game and see who has the tougher time.

This is flawed, because you are using newbies. Put both in the hands of a veteran so that you can fully use their potential. The power resides in the Mage when you know how to use it. Clerics are powerful too, but the Mage has more potential.<hr></blockquote>

Um, no.

I said nothing about whether or not it's "fair." Fairness has nothing to do with it.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern:
You need to target the Mage to cast Insect Plague. You cannot cast on a invisible target, nor can you target the ground.<hr></blockquote>

Since you won't be casting any spells while you're invisible, I guess we'll have a picnic.

For the most part people play with a party at least once before they solo, they wouldn't be able to do it with any class if they didn't know what was coming, Clerics have to prepare for a test as well you know.

People who solo know the game, and usually know the classes, and therefore can use them to their upmost.

and surely ease of soloing is proof of a single classes power?

It'd be really hard to solo a level 1 bard that never advanced in level, does that mean a level 1 bard is not powerful? Of course it does! If it was easy to solo with a lvl 99 fighter then surely a lvl 99 fighter is powerful???????

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Yggdrasil:
Since you won't be casting any spells while you're invisible, I guess we'll have a picnic.<hr></blockquote>

I can cast Time Stop without removing my invisibility. Oh, the Mage will have a picnic alright. ;)

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Yggdrasil:
Um, no.

I said nothing about whether or not it's "fair." Fairness has nothing to do with it.<hr></blockquote>


You implied it, thats enough.[ Ugh, or you didn't...suppose it differs with which way you look at it...uhh...sorry?]

And a picnic? Why not move out of your visibility, summon some uber-minions, set up a spell trigger with some hurting spells, go invisible again, watch as you ware yourself down on the minions, then reappear with a magical nuke.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern:
I said: Try assigning a solo Cleric and a solo Mage to two people who've never played the game and see who has the tougher time.

You said: This is flawed, because you are using newbies. Put both in the hands of a veteran so that you can fully use their potential. The power resides in the Mage when you know how to use it. Clerics are powerful too, but the Mage has more potential.<hr></blockquote>

It's not flawed--if one class is inherently more 'powerful' than the other, being played a newbie won't make much difference. Plus it erases foreknowledge of the game, which is huge cheese. I consider it a perfectly valid test.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Yggdrasil:
It's not flawed--if one class is inherently more 'powerful' than the other, being played a newbie won't make much difference. Plus it erases foreknowledge of the game, which is huge cheese. I consider it a perfectly valid test.<hr></blockquote>

It is flawed,

Assuming that the person is totally clueless about D&D, he/she will have an easier time with a Fighter( me bash stuff, me bash more stuff). Does this mean that the Fighter class is the most powerful class of them all?

Not really, because people learn, and as they learn, they begin to explore the possibilities of each class. A person well-versed in the ways of arcane magic, can do much more than a person well-versed in the ways of divine magic.

It is about the potential, it is there, you cannot deny it.

I'm denying it.

This thread is killing my enjoyment of the game. I'm beginning to get the notion that no matter what class I play, the character will never be as powerful or have as much potentential as the Mighty Mage as played by Dundee Slaytern.