I'm not changing the issue. Dundee has come to the defense of his country's stance on punishing drugs offenders. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of him doing so.

Yes, he is a kid. Yes, he broke the law. Yes, he must be punished. The issue is whether the punishment is appropriate given the crime. I would argue not. You clearly have a different opinion. That's fine - we're entitled to our own opinions. </font>[/QUOTE]That's not the issue though, I think alot of those here agree that killing him is not a fair punishment, the fact is, he knew the punishement and went ahead with it, therefore, if its a slap on the wrist and a $20 fine, or to be hanged, no matter what, he deserves it ;)

Do the crime, suffer the punishment. Simple as that.

First of all, I don't think Singapore jails are fun places to be. Secondly, depending on the country, the death sentence (also paid by the tax-payer) is often more expensive then life in prison.

Yeah, real simple, until someone makes it against the law to eat, or use the bathroom, or be black-skinned, or be Christian, etc. etc. Which is the whole point, isn't it?

I mean, if we were to pass a law making picking your nose and farting punishable by death, then you'd be well on notice that you can't do those things. But, that does not mean you live in a "just" society.

So many of you keep answering this question with the same basic reply: "It's the law." Well, no duh. The whole question is should it be?

[ 11-29-2005, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

Well, it's a questionable law at the very least, condemned by almost every other nation.

No, I don't think the punishment fits the crime, but the fact remains that death is the penalty for smuggling drugs, and he was well aware of that ;)

Just got back from duty. Time for my replies.

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Well, i don't think there are thieves anywhere, who wake up one morning and decide to go to Saudi Arabia to steal a bread, or whatever. But it's a little different if you're a native and are among those hundreds of thousands who live in poverty, below any human decency. First the government keeps them poor, and then when they try to steal something to feed their families, they cut off their hands, or worse. Don't you see anything wrong in this picture ?</font>[/QUOTE]While it may seem wrong to many, I must emphasise that there should be a line between disagreeing with another country's policy, and choosing to be aggressive towards said country just because you do not agree with its' policies.

If anything, hostilities tend to make the target belligerent. Not that I am implying that our government will become so, since this is hardly the first time we have been accused of being draconic barbarians. So the general tendency when other people hue and cry is to roll our eyes and mutter, "Not again..."

The Australian government as a whole has been very gentlemanly about this whole issue, and our government appreciates that. The same cannot be said of the Australian media though... but hey, ratings mean everything right?


But we can at least try to make them change their laws, threaten with sanctions if they don't adjust. It's not that your law is waterproof or anything. How many people fell victim to your law, because someone unknown to them hid drugs in their suitcases just before getting on a plane ?</font>[/QUOTE]This is the part I strongly disagree with. Only God, should he/she/it exist, can truly judge which country is right or wrong. Different cultures, different set of moral values and ethics. It is only those who disagree with us who will say that our laws are wrong.

I hate rap, and often fantasise about nuking rap artistes, but hey, it is just my opinion on what is good or bad. If you do not like what you see in your country, just emigrate.

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I have never implied that he was a criminal mastermind. I have just simply stated that he chose his path to take, and now he must reap what he had decided to sow.

I do not know from what evidence do you derive your opinion that we are bosom buddies with Myammar, but we are not. Yes, we are neighbours in the South-East Asia(SEA) region, but I would hardly describe our relations as "close ties". I would also like to see references on how you came about your statement on the heroin trade in Singapore. Additionally, I would wholly appreciate it if you explain how Singapore supports Myammar's "dire human rights, repression of the media and democracy movements, and monster drugs trade".

I hope your sources are from actual documents and not media hysteria.

By the way, it does not matter what your role is in the drug trafficking trade is. You smuggle the drugs, you swing.

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[ 11-29-2005, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

Allow me to voice another perspective. I'm coming from the viewpoint of a citizen.
What are laws for? Ultimately, the protection of a country's citizens, to regulate the behaviour of society by stating what is unacceptable behaviour.
Do I agree with some of our laws? No, I don't. Am I glad the law (taken as a whole) are what they are? Yes I am.
Singapore is one of the safest countries in the world. I feel safe walking home at 3 am in the morning without fear of being mugged or robbed. Do we have crime? Yes, some of them quite sensational. Do I feel safe at home? Very.
I would also like to point out that Van Tuong was treated no differently then a Singaporean. As a Singaporean, why should the law treat a foreigner any different? Would you expect your country's judiciary to treat foreigners any differently from your own citizens?

I feel the same safety myself, yet I live in a country without the death penalty and in which certain drugs are actually legal and others are tolerated. And I'm also very happy with our laws as they are now.
So apparently it's more of a difference in mentality and does it work differently on a psychological level, rather than that it points out an actual direct connection between strictness of punishments and feelings of safety.

Also, would you really feel less safe if life sentences were given out instead of death penalties for drug trafficking? Just wondering.

[ 11-30-2005, 06:44 AM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

So how come this person gets hanged early for smuggling drugs, yet however the mastermin that killed people in dangerous bomb blasts has yet to be decided? And how they let off Mechelle because she was muslim?