Just to clarify one thing before it gets out of hand...Dramnek/Eisenschwartz and Shaide are not the same person - or in any case, they're not posting from the same IPs. They both may share unpopular, some might even say extreme, views - but they are not the same person. Just to clear that up. ;)

Now let's do less mudslinging and more debating, by sticking to the topic, eh?</font>[/QUOTE]<font color="#ffccff">My apologies Memnoch, This was all my fault, I threw the first mudball. </font>

<font color="#ffccff">My apologies Memnoch, This was all my fault, I threw the first mudball. </font></font>[/QUOTE]No worries dude, happens to all of us. You're a much more effective debater when you stick to the topic at hand and keep away from the personal stuff. Just a hint. ;)

<font color="#ffccff">There were many eyewitnesses on the highway that the plane crossed (within yards of the pentagon itself) it even clipped some of the light posts along the highway on its way in. There is absolutely no doubt that it went in...Having visited the scene just hours after the instance I can attest to the light poles being sheered off.</font></font>[/QUOTE]Aand as for fact on the 'missing' plane-parts in the wreakage - just look at the photos from the WTC - a plane goes in on one side and is totally destroyed. The same happened at Pentagon :(

But can you attest to a plane being there?

I don't doubt that there was one.. i just couldn't see it in that clip from that link. [img]smile.gif[/img]

But can you attest to a plane being there?

I don't doubt that there was one.. i just couldn't see it in that clip from that link. [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]Interesting theory, Djinn...what do you suppose happened to the plane then? Could it be possible that the US military shot it down? [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img]

Well even if they shot them down their would still be the wreckage of the plane.

It would be a tough decision to have to shoot down a commercial airliner that was being hijacked. And i don't know if they would or not but i suspect that they would and i am more than sure that the scenario has been talked about by the 'top brass' so to speak. And in all honesty shooting it down could very well be the right thing to do. But if they do that it would be best imo to make that detail public instead of keeping it classified.

Yes - but this is old (pre Gulf War) equipment. Magik said Iraq is still buying weapon from Russia.</font>[/QUOTE]Not sure on how this is relevant. I merely verified the current make up of Iraqi military power. Yes, they are pursuing weapons from Russia, also Chinese modified Russian equipment, and French.

Also 12 yr old equipment is not that old. The F-16 shot down in Bosnia was splashed by 60's tech Russian SAMs. The F-15, one of the premeire air frames flying today is 70's tech. The Colt M1911 .45 cal pistol, IMO one of the best handguns made, is .... 1911 tech. Old is not necessarily ineffective.

You still haven't answered my question - where could it be then? Surely it didn't disappear - the Bermuda triangle is quite a ways south of Washington. Let's follow your reasoning and assume it didn't crash into the Pentagon. Where is it then? Humor me with some hypotheses. [img]smile.gif[/img]

well my reasoning is different than what i believe Memnoch.

I believe a plane crashed into the Pentagon.. i just didn't see it in that frame by frame clip linked to above..

What could it have been?

Because surely a plane can't dissapear like you say.. so what happened to the plane? Was it incerated in the fireball of the explosion? Where was the tail or the piece of wing? Did you have a conclusive picture of it to show? Was the black box recovered from the wreckage of the plane at the Pentagon?

Well it could have been a missile launched and bought and paid for by Exxon.. The real global power. If UN is an international joke.. BP and Exxon are not..

Well it could have been a plane hijacked by four Islamic fundamentalists and piloted into the Pentagon.

i tell you what though.. it was a plane.

and if you look at the clip in that link and tell me that it was a plane.. then i will tell you that you were seeing things.. because no plane was in any frame of that video clip in the provided link!

[ 01-26-2003, 05:20 AM: Message edited by: Djinn Raffo ]

When an aircraft flys into a mountain - it does so with enormous impact. The force tends to go through the aircraft, knocking pieces everywhere. Here you had an aircraft which had a 'cushion' (the building), allowing the fusilage to 'concertina'. Likewise, the aircraft parts become intermingled with the metal girders within the building - and then the whole thing is fused together by the ENORMOUS heat of the fire.

To my mind, it remains a definate possibility that there were no 'large' pieces left - of course I would expect some traces of the aircraft to be found...