And what's more, the Jews didn't go there looking for a fight. They were on the run for the Nazi's and Stalin's regime, and they were nowhere safe in the rest of Europe as well. They thought they were going to the promised land, and finally could live their lifes in peace. And what did they find ? Hate, hate, and more hate.

Well, the jews got sick and tired of running and decided to take no more shit from anyone. If it was up to the arab league, there wouldn't be a single Jew alive in the region, but unfortunately for them the sheep turned into a tiger. Mess with the Israeli's, and you'll pay a heavy price. All Arabs know that by now.

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Trigger happy hmmmmm...ok how many innocent men women and children are permitted to be killed and maimed before they have a right to strike back?
</font> </font>[/QUOTE]Actually I wonder how the general American viewpoint on this matter became that the Palestinians are guilty of everything whereas the Israelis only responds. ;) IIRC it's the other way around in Europe.

What I meant MagiK was nothing of the kind you were thinking. It's not enough for one side to back down. Both sides most do that. So if the Israelis hadn't killed the Hamas leader right after the Palestinian bomb, but let The Palestinian arrest those responsible for the attack and then have them deported to Israel, there wouldn't be as many retaliation bombing that now once more will come from the Palestinians. ;)

<font face="Verdana" size="3" color="#00FF00"> Israel usually gets a few women and children in the crossfire turning normally complacent family members into seeking revenge. That is what usually happens when you use assault helicopters on busy streets to get one person. No justification from the bombers or Israeli army if you ask me. They are both guilty. </font>

[ 08-22-2003, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

The Arab-Jewish conflict is much older than that. They have been fighting for several centuries now.

But I agree with you that the Jews were not looking for a fight when deported after WWII. And I also believe there could have been better solutions 60 years ago. ;)

I know that willow, the Jews have always been slaves. That goes back to the days of the pharaoh's. They haven't exactly walked an easy path over the centuries, but now they finally have a state of their own. And they protect it by all means necessary. I know they also hurt a lot of innocent people with their actions, but from their point of view, i can fully understand they won't take any risks. I myself have deep respect for the Israeli's and their determination to overcome any obstacle. Even for the assasination of terrorists who were hiding in "safe havens" in Europe in the seventies and eighties. There's no place on earth where a terrorist is safe when he's on their list.

In the nineties there were a few violations of Jewish graveyards in (of all places) Germany. Neo Nazism was florishing once again. But the Israeli sent out a little message to the German government, that if they didn't take care of these outrages, the Mossad would do it for them. You better take such a warning very serious, for they WILL come for you. The Germans got the message and things became relatively quiet again. You gotta admire that attitude. I do.

"Always been slaves" - don't think so! Been persecuted - yep!

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Trigger happy hmmmmm...ok how many innocent men women and children are permitted to be killed and maimed before they have a right to strike back?
</font> </font>[/QUOTE]Actually I wonder how the general American viewpoint on this matter became that the Palestinians are guilty of everything whereas the Israelis only responds. ;) IIRC it's the other way around in Europe.

What I meant MagiK was nothing of the kind you were thinking. It's not enough for one side to back down. Both sides most do that. So if the Israelis hadn't killed the Hamas leader right after the Palestinian bomb, but let The Palestinian arrest those responsible for the attack and then have them deported to Israel, there wouldn't be as many retaliation bombing that now once more will come from the Palestinians. ;) </font>[/QUOTE]<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
Ok, I can see what you are suggesting. But note..the Israelies retaliated against Hamas.....Hamas and other militant groups are targeting innocent civilians...see the difference? I don't think I ever said that "ALL" Palistinians were guilty of anything. I do know however that if the "Innocent" palistinians got up off their butts and stopped the radical nut jobs that are living amongst them...then things would be a lot more peaceful inthe region.

As for European views on things Israeli and jewish...ummm Historicly Europe has not been a very friendly place for Jews. It wasn't just Hitler who hated jews. There has been persecution at various times all over Europe the Catholic church was pretty hard on them during the Inquisition years...and many of the European governments have at times been rather unfriendly to the money lenders amongst them. The USA is slightly more pro-Jewish than current day Europe I guess.... Im not jewish, I have only a few Jewish friends. All I know is what I learn when researching history. I think I side with the Jews and Israel partly because they are the underdog.
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I have to agree with Donuts, point there...not always slaves...persecuted and some times hated yes.

Due in part to their financial accumen historicly (a stereotype that has roots in reality)
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We seem to differ in that I take intentions into account and you apparently do not. Two or Three or a few people accidentally caught in cross fire are a different story from Dozens purposely targetd because they are defenseless.
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"Always been slaves" - don't think so! Been persecuted - yep! </font>[/QUOTE]Okay, point taken, maybe i should have said they have always been stepped upon, humiliated, and treated like dirt. Better now ? :D