Ironworks Gaming Forum - Pacifist and Idealist synonymous? A word about war from a war vet..

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- - Pacifist and Idealist synonymous? A word about war from a war vet.. (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70578)

Quote:

Originally posted by 250:
get a life, bitch
just kidding! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...s/biglaugh.gif

Personally, I don't care if you were kidding or not - that's not funny!

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Quote:

Originally posted by Moridin:
There is a lot I wanted to respond to, but this was on the last page so I will start here http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

Wouldn't we be getting ourselves into the same situation as we have in the past (and that some people here are against)...if we support the Northern Alliance and help them gain a majority rule in Afghanistan, isn't that the same as supplying the Taliban and bin Laden in their fight against Russia? How do we know that the Northern Alliance will turn out any better? We cannot argue that support was a bad choice in one instant and then turn around and try to justify it in the next. We (any country that lost citizens in the attack) should deal with this matter directly, not through support of an opposition group.

Our prior support in Afghanistan was NOT the reason bin Laden turned against the US, so the comparison doesn't hold up.

Quote:

Originally posted by DragonMage:
Personally, I don't care if you were kidding or not - that's not funny!

hey, I DON'T care

Quote:

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown:
Our prior support in Afghanistan was NOT the reason bin Laden turned against the US, so the comparison doesn't hold up.

Did you read my post? The comparison I was making was this: When we supported bin Laden and Afghanistan we did not know that the outcome, many years later, would be a massive terrorist attack...whatever the reason for said attack. Therefore how can you support our funding/support of the Northern Alliance? Do we know what they will become many years from now...NO! You are arguing that we 'created' bin Laden, and should share part of the blame, but then turn around and advocate the support of another 'unknown' alliance!

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Quote:

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah:
Sir K. may I suggest you don't make your arguments by hypothesising extreme situations that have not happened, and are not likely to happen. (The ludicrous child trading example, for example...) Let's stick to the facts. How you choose to interprete those is up to you.

I prefer to work with reality rather than start debating imaginary scenarios. It keeps everyone's feet on the ground.

NOVEL IDEA!!!!

Now if only the ones putting up such a fight about 'innocents' being killed and the U.S. bombing the hell out of Afghanistan would follow this advice themselves! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

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Quote:

Originally posted by Liliara:
NOVEL IDEA!!!!

Now if only the ones putting up such a fight about 'innocents' being killed and the U.S. bombing the hell out of Afghanistan would follow this advice themselves! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

Was going to post this same thing!!! Well said Liliara http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time
Bossman of Better Funny Stuff.....of the Laughing Hyenas!

Quote:

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown:

In the history of our country, you mean?

Well, the major incidents would include the long, hundred year conquest and virtual extermination of the Indians (the rougly hundred years following the founding of the Unites States -- actually a bit longer than that) in one shameful episode of US agression after another; the War with Mexico, in which the US helped trump up incidents in an excuse to conquer and claim half of what was then Mexico; certainly the Civil War if viewed from the point of view of the US gov't fighting to preserve a big chunk of its territory by gunpoint (We southerners find it much easier to view the War of Northern Aggression in that way http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif), the Spanish American war, where a mysterious explosion on the Battleship Maine in Havana, Cuba was used politically as a reason to gobble up what remained of the Spanish Empire in the Americas and the Pacific (this is how we acquired the Phillipines, for example, treating it as a colony in part of our Manifest Destiny Empire, including the brutal suppression of rebellion against us by our military), and of course the long, sordid series of military interventions in Central and South America, the latest such being Panama by George Bush Sr., which if you will recall was the case of a US invasion and takeover of the country, without a single shot having been fired at us first, in your words.

We participated in the Western Domination and carving up of China, suppressed the Chinese in the Boxer Rebellion, and helped hold sway over China allied with europeans until the people became so sick of our version of western influence that they turned by their millions to the Communists and the support of the Soviet Union and drove the Westerners out.

Of course there was Vietnam, in which we killed over a million people for no particular good reason at all.

The Middle East has long been a sore point. After the great victory of World War II the US dominated the region, along with her ally Britain, who was at that point fast losing grip on her old empire to the US. We supported such ruthless, bloody, tyrants as the Shah of Iran, who suppressed his people with such extremes as torture. We armed him, supplied him, kept him in power with the assistance of the CIA, all because we could work with him for oil. The Iranian people sure took that as a first attack by the US. Can't same I blame them.

Okay, that was just a quick summary of how the US is in no position to claim that it never is the aggressor.

Let's stay within a relatively recent period. The wars throughout history are countless and are from a different time. My point was that we never have military action by US troops against someone who has not aggressed someone else first. As far as supplying certain groups goes, I think more than one country has played in that little political chess game. We're not perfect, but I'm happy with us. Tell you what, if it's so terrible here I can probably get a collection going to buy you a one way ticket to the middle eastern anti-american country of your choice. Why don't you go see if they love you too? Ya know, all kissy kissy and such. That is, if your plane doesn't get blown up first.

[This message has been edited by Sir Kenyth (edited 09-27-2001).]

Quote:

Woo Hoo! Reinforcments! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Kenyth:
Woo Hoo! Reinforcments! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

Hoping that two wrongs will make you right?

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Quote:

Originally posted by Absynthe:
Hoping that two wrongs will make you right?

Should I try a collection for two seats on the plane?