Well, if my ideas for the quest is approved then I can write out the dialog. Im no good at the scripting but I can conjure up the convos.


--Kestrel--

I think we would have to assemble a modding team. That means someone who could write scripts. I don't think we can consider putting a team together until we have a scripter.

OK, so the basic outline of the plot (as I see it) is as follows.

~ ~ ~

Gaelan Bayle sets you up with the Shadow Thieves, but you can choose an alternative. A vampire named Valen approaches you and tells you there's she can help you get to Spellhold as well.

While Gaelan Bayle has directed you to the Docks district, Valen points you to the Graveyard district. So the path splits up:

1)Enter Docks District
<font color=red>NOTE</font>The incident with Renfeld should of course change for the following to happen. What I suggest is not a timer, but more like a cutscene when the player is going to travel to the Docks and hasn't been to the Graveyard District before. On the way to the Docks the player will come across Renfeld and his attackers.

~

As you enter the Docks district, you are hailed by a woman (any given name, but let's call her Asheera). She tells you about Xzar, a known Zhentarim and necromancer. Now of course Asheera knows this information, and so do her friends, but the law prohibits them from killing him on the streets. So she wants you to play the game along [what follows is the Quest for Montaron's body]. As we all know, Galvarey and his follower aren't true Harpers so that's why Asheera tells you not to mention her name or that you've talked to her.
If you finish the quest in a good way for the Harpers, you've proven your interests to them (on both sides, Galvarey AND Asheera), but they still remain rather vague about it all. Asheera will only tell you "They are watching you with interest and caution alike, my masters. You will probably hear from us, but know this, <CHARNAME>. Those who have contacted you before are not to be trusted." Galvarey will go on with the usual Harper business that is own to the original Shadows of Amn.

~

The second time you meet Asheera is when you've mentioned her name to Galvarey (if Jaheira is in the party she will advise <CHARNAME> to go speak to Galvarey} or when you've tried to side with the Shadow Thieves or Bodhi. In case of the first, Galvarey will not know who Asheera is and warn the player about her. "She is not a true Harper, that is one thing which is obvious." Asheera will then once again contact the party, telling them they were careless by mentioning her name, to which the player obviously responds "You proposed a deal, and we wanted to contact you again. How else could we have done that?" This insightfulness impresses Asheera so she proposes a task [insert new quest here]. If the player accomplishes this task, they will meet Asheera in [insert building here].
Successfully accomplishing the task means and answering some of Asheera's questions means you've sided with the Harpers. Come to the building otherwise, and Asheera will leave never to return again. This leaves only Bodhi and the SThieves open.

~ ~ ~
2)Enter Graveyard District
Upon entering the Graveyard district you immediately meet Bodhi. Bodhi tells you the usual and says you should travel down the crypts to meet her. When she disappears, and you travel further across the Graveyard you walk into a fight between a vampire and three Shadow Thieves. Whatever the outcome, one of them will survive, but will be killed by a man named Akur. He will be hesitant to drop his guard towards the player "for only vile creatures dwell the Graveyard at night. Even these dispicable thieves." When the player asks him about this, he gives him the same treatment as Asheera does ("They are watching you with interest and caution alike, my masters. You will probably hear from us, but know this, <CHARNAME>. Those who have contacted you before are not to be trusted." He then gives the party a cryptic note, somewhat like a riddle. "Solve it, he says, and you will find your answers." Then he disappears. Of course the answer to the riddle is relatively simple, and you end up in the same house Asheera directed you to. From here the path goes the same as mentioned above.

~ ~ ~ ~

The whole Harper ideology behind the matter is Irenicus and his thirst for power. They know his background, through Elminster of course, and they fear what might happen. So they want the player to stop him, and getting to Imoen means getting to Irenicus. At the same time they're anxious about <CHARNAME> as well. Gorion was a Harper too, so they know a great deal about you as well. They fear you may become to powerful at one point, so they wish to monitor you from close distance [maybe a new Jaheira sidequest here?].
Gaining your trust, and their trust is the main thing that the player has to do in his dealings with the Harper. Of course, this involves quest, but <CHARNAME> will learn more and more about both Irenicus, Imoen and his role. Not too much, because the Harpers still have their own plan.
The Harpers will let you travel to Brynnlaw by boat as well (Saemon again) and from there on the same thing happens.

~ ~ ~

In regards to the relationship with the Shadow Thieves and Bodhi, only Bodhi will actually be an enemy to you. The Shadow Thieves are only interested in Bodhi and her little guild, and only when <CHARNAME> staps in and mingles with their business will they become enemies. Other than that they will remain neutral, to an expense of course. If you don't watch your back, you could have two of Athkatla's largest groups on your hide.

1) Would the Cowled wizrds needed your help, they are meant to be one of the most powerful gropus of wizards on the sword coast?
2) If they really were that desperate, would they wait for you to assemble cash to get a boat? Surely they would teleport you immediately, thus limiting quests e.t.c.

Spoilers...

But in Jaheira's plot you end up killing every harpers in the harper hold when they try to kill/capture you. This mean if you don't want to tie up both storyline you can't use any of those harpers.

Actually, you dont kill the three people who are in there when you do the Xzar quest. They are gone, must be out on a day trip or something, and it is Galvarey and his cadre of harpers that confront you. So, after all that is done with, logically the others should come back no?

--Kestrel--

Maybe, but then you couldn't go to spellhold until after you did the Jaheira storyline, if you even do it.

Why not just introduce a new group. A completely new faction? There are other groups or even individuals that could help. Maybe a cabal of chaotic good mages that want to overthrow the Cowled Wizards? They could have you help their cause a while before they send you on your way.

And why should they come to you? Why not look for them?

I hated that the thieves approached you right at the beginning. Here you are, in a unknown country, your friend just got kidnaped, and the solution just appear like that by itself.

We should have had to ask around for help, be on our own for a while...

[ 12-16-2004, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: Luvian ]

Yeah, the wizards could be resisiting the oppression of magic users in Amn, could have some sub-quests linked to persecution of magic users, with violent/bribe/diplomatic solutions.

As for a name:
Wizards 4 Justice, they could stand on the government building in superman outfits (Joke re: UK organization, if you think im cracking up )

[ 12-16-2004, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: Aragorn1 ]

Not a bad idea. I think that the reason that people think in terms of using existing groups is that it's easier to look at their justifications for helping you and how it fits into their pre-existing mandate. Creating a new group requires creating a justification for their very existance, as well as a justification for why they are helping you.

And that the existing groups have existing headquarters in the city, whereas adding a new faction would seem to require finding a place to put them.

I suppose that there may be some groups in the region that exist in D&D and FR, but were not included in BG2. But since I am not a D&D expert, only a D&D CRPG player, I know nothing of these possible groups.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if a justification could be created for the Lathanerites or Helmites or the Order of the Radiant Heart (ORJ) to help you. Yes, no doubt that there are reasons, some already mentioned, for these groups *not* helping. But I think that it's entirely possible that a justification could be created for them to help out, in spite of their normal mandate. Sometimes, groups will do the unexpected. Oh, not some much so that it's completely nukes their alignment.

But I think that I could see where the ORH's leadership might be chafing at the arrogance of the Cowled Wizards and are looking for a reason to look into their abuses. They might believe that they couldn't do this themselves, but would see the PC as an opportunity. And in return, they would help the PC get to Spellhold. What kinds of tasks you might be required to do for the ORH? Oh, the easy requirement might be to simply do the Windspear Hills area and/or kill Firkraag. A new requirement would require some creative thinking.

OTOH, perhaps the Lathanderites might be willing to help out, but in return you might need to figure out the reason for all of the vampires that are prowling the streets of Athkatla at night. This could end up being similar to the path you take when you work with the Shadow Thieves, i.e. go to graveyard, break into Bohdi's lair, and kick some vampire butts. (Except that you'd need someone other than the Shadow Thief's wizard and the golem to open the "big blue door" to break into Bohdi's lair.)

All in all, I think that all roads would probably lead to getting the boat ride with Saemon Havarian.

Paladins and the Order are paragon of virtues, they wouldn't do that.

I also see no reason why a Priest of the Morninglord, god of Spring, Dawn and birth would help you fight an order of mage. Especially when there is an invasion of undead in the city...

The only character already in the game that might help is Elminster, I guess.

[ 12-16-2004, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: Luvian ]