errr....?
So Salamanders, fish, sharks, dolphins, whales and birds are all reptiles then.
It doesn't have any scales either so how is it a reptile?

Hey Sythe, lets make a deal. You let me kill all the evil kobolds and I will leave the few good ones alone.
Happy?

DS

This is a discussion of kobold rights. Do you think if there is a group of mages talking about the history of Elminster that they are very upsessed about him? Just because this topic is about kobolds does not mean that we are, overly upsessed about them.

A few words:

Check the 3rd Editon Monster Manual.

I guess they are not reptalian in second editon. Sorry for the confusion.


Okay Dragonshadow I agree with you. Under one conditon. You let me and some of my old adventuring pals kill ALL evil Humans. ;) That should be a hard task I say.

Some of you may have mistaken me when I mentioned how some died. I was more concerned with them living in a city and causing accidental fires if they were mugged or there was a riot in the streets. But still, just because most kobolds may be evil, that is not an excuse to kill them all. If they were ransacking a village, then you could go kill those involved, but if alignment is the only Prerequisite to killing kobolds, than that could be used against any species, including us humans. All races have the good and the bad, some have more good, some have more bad, and then there are some like orcs and goblins whom most are evil and then elves whom most are good and vice verca for the Drow.

If the kobolds are blindly following their evil god, it is not their fault for not wanting to be killed or tortured by him and thus they do what is commanded of them. The same is true of Paladins, Monks, Clerics and all those who worship gods... Also the fact is, they may not know any better way to act or live and may be jealous from what they have heard of our cities.

Does it matter if you kill a kobold if you are evil. cause drows kill for fun right [img]graemlins/evillaughter2.gif[/img]

No, if the drow kill for fun it is because they have been raised that way through mistradition and an evil spider god. Look at the Drow named Dritzz, he's a good drow nor does he kill for fun, he has escaped the drow way of life.
But this meeting is not about the drow or killing species for fun. The meeting is to decide whether or not all the Kobolds deserve to die, whether or not we have the right to play god in the decision to kill them and bit about possible integration.

The way it seems to me is that integration is not possible even if we decided that course for most of the people in baldurs gate would be against that, and if the average citizen is baised against elves, what would you think about them and kobolds.

We also reserve no right to kill them all and the citizenry would certainly be against this moral dilemna. If we were to send a band of soldiers to kill them, it would be because a bunch of kobolds attacked a village.

Now at the start of this meeting, the initial proposal was about integration, I say we have the people vote on it, and if they decide to integrate Kobolds, then we send emissaries to see if any will want to move to the cities, teach them basic common and some city skills. If not, then issue is decided because the Kobolds are not under the Senates jurisdiction and so we cannot decide their fates except when they attack a settlement of ours. We can't stop those like sythe from organizing the kobolds - as long as its reasonable and legal and not to conquer - and we can't stop those like Dragonshadow from attacking Kobolds.
I do not think there is much more to discuss unless we want to pass laws restricting the killing of species like kobolds to defence only.

Isn't this part of what we are trying to decide? By proposing the notion of Kobold Integration, we are assuming certain things about the species:

1. They are capable of integration
2. They might want to be integrated
3. They have inherent rights which we are duly called upon to defend
4. An extension of point 3 requires us to assess the rights of that, and any other species

The question of K.I. seeks to remove the threat of random (and systemic) kobold assaults on passersby, and the inevitable retaliation, by assimilating the kobolds into mainstream Faerûn society. Mr Underhill's original premise is that everyone has a right to life, and by including kobolds, rather than excluding them, they could be brought into the mainstream where they would see that their past behaviour would not only be intolerable, but would be destructive for them as well as us.

If we are to debate (even decide) the fate of the kobolds in general, then haven't we already assumed the mantle of moral highground? If that is so, then surely we cannot be willing to arbitrarily exterminate another intelligent species.

Even if they do need a good kicking...

Okay Dragonshadow I agree with you. Under one conditon. You let me and some of my old adventuring pals kill ALL evil Humans. ;) That should be a hard task I say. </font>[/QUOTE]Go ahead.

Okay Dragonshadow I agree with you. Under one conditon. You let me and some of my old adventuring pals kill ALL evil Humans. ;) That should be a hard task I say. </font>[/QUOTE]Go ahead. </font>[/QUOTE]Can I help? Paladin's are good at detecting evil

Okay Dragonshadow I agree with you. Under one conditon. You let me and some of my old adventuring pals kill ALL evil Humans. ;) That should be a hard task I say. </font>[/QUOTE]Go ahead. </font>[/QUOTE]Can I help? Paladin's are good at detecting evil </font>[/QUOTE]Sure. Dectect evil all you want. Let us kill all evil!

Okay Dragonshadow I agree with you. Under one conditon. You let me and some of my old adventuring pals kill ALL evil Humans. ;) That should be a hard task I say. </font>[/QUOTE]Go ahead. </font>[/QUOTE]Can I help? Paladin's are good at detecting evil </font>[/QUOTE]Sure. Dectect evil all you want. Let us kill all evil! </font>[/QUOTE]I was only joking. Glad this topic is moving like fire again.

Oh yeah. fire is good. Especily on Kobolds.

German creatures, aren't they kobolds?

Okay Dragonshadow I agree with you. Under one conditon. You let me and some of my old adventuring pals kill ALL evil Humans. ;) That should be a hard task I say. </font>[/QUOTE]Go ahead. </font>[/QUOTE]Can I help? Paladin's are good at detecting evil </font>[/QUOTE]Sure. Dectect evil all you want. Let us kill all evil! </font>[/QUOTE]I was only joking. Glad this topic is moving like fire again. </font>[/QUOTE]So who cares that you're joking lets do it

Okay Dragonshadow I agree with you. Under one conditon. You let me and some of my old adventuring pals kill ALL evil Humans. ;) That should be a hard task I say. </font>[/QUOTE]Go ahead. </font>[/QUOTE]Can I help? Paladin's are good at detecting evil </font>[/QUOTE]Sure. Dectect evil all you want. Let us kill all evil! </font>[/QUOTE]I was only joking. Glad this topic is moving like fire again. </font>[/QUOTE]So who cares that you're joking lets do it </font>[/QUOTE]Hey HEY I hate repeating myself but don't any of you have compassion!? Did you know that we ARE kobolds compared to Dragons. What if Dragons want to eliminate us! Because they are tired for of adventurers snooping around their lairs. It would be a massacre millions of human and demi-human lives would be lost while Dragons would suffer few casualties! Fortounetly they all have too much pride in themselves to even consider the thought. They think us "lesser races" are not worth the time and effort. Like Lilacor said each race has good and evil even though some races have more evil than good.

What was that kobolds name he was with Xvart and something else. I think his name was Larry. Anyway kobolds deserve a chance. Though it would take many years for the majority of today's society to accept them when they still have other bias with other races such as elves.

The something else was a tasloi

Ack! The Great Pyramids of Quoting return! Hey all, when quoting, try to limit to only the last two or so relevant quotes. 4+ levels of nested quotes are unweildy to read.

This is an established courtesy on all of the forums at IW.

Cheers all [img]graemlins/cheers.gif[/img]

Once every 10,000 hours, the king of undead threads rises to stalk the land...

Sythe, we are hardly kobolds in comparison to dragons. Unless you are refering only to the size relativity. Afterall, I slaughter dragons in my sleep (that is not to say in my dreams mind you). And, all the strongest oldest dragons are of a good alignment and will not maliciously assault the humanoid races as you have predicted.

Well okay I suppose I was going overboard there. But it was a hypothetical situation.

One problem Scythe
"We aren't kobolds"

EVOLUTION OF THE TOPIC
It started out life as a civil topic, dicussing weather or not we should hug these kobolds. Gradually, it became more of a riot place (manly due to the arrival of me :D ). Peopel were put in prision(Mr. baggins) went missing (Lord Brass) and rewards were put out for finding people (?). Then things aclmed down, and it became the story of the whereabouts of Mr. Baggins and Lord Brass.

In the second thread, it was more of a topic on "Should we KILL the Kobolds", and the tragic story of little Ko, which failed to bring tears to my eyes but that is not the point.

Now it is a topic on are we kobolds.
No.
We are not.

(History of the thread by DS)

[ 07-22-2003, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: Dragonshadow ]

I didn't say anybody was kobolds I was making a comparasin with another creature. But I exarrated of the comparasin. It was what IF situation. Now lets not talk about whether or not we are kobolds which as we all know are not.

As Dragonshadow has pointed out this topic has gotten way off topic I think we should all just take a vote. Are you with me?

Aye I suppose so eleven pages has gone on long enough. We all have been debating on this topic for many months and I suppose a vote would settle this.

Now everyone vote Yes if you agree to kobold integration. Who will one day become respected members of society. And one day we would look back at history and see how we misunderstood these demi-humans. If you vote Nay then things will still be the same as it is right now. And we would countinue walking on the dark path.

My vote is

Nay .............achoo I mean

Yes!

Nay! Nay! Nay! (Is that three votes?)

Nay! Nay! Nay! (Is that three votes?) </font>[/QUOTE]Nay that is Nay three votes.

Lets love the good kobolds and kill and hate the bad ones... and Ko.

and your vote is??

Good kobolds: leave
bad kobolds + Ko: kill.

That's my vote.

Thats not really a vote Dragonshadow and besides it's impossible to kill every single evil kobolds. Some of the good kobolds are buds with the bad. Do you want to kill them too? If too the good kobolds you kill who did have more friendly lawful good kobolds would want revenge and well ........you'll have the entire race against you. Hurry and give your vote I am leaving to another state today!!!

Nay for me, things are fine the way they are.

Oh hek. flame as many of 'em as yer can!
:offtopic:Soz if the votes a bit late, sibling invades and dad connects me to internet wahoo.

Erm, I don't know if that vote is aye, nay, or what.

You can detirmine the evil ones by using me, a paladin.

Very good point, that paladin.

<font color="white">We should love them! They are living beings you know! Preserve the balance! :D </font>

After butchering my fighter yesterday at Firewine bridge all I can say about kobolds is: ˝Fireball them all and let the Gods sort them out!˝ [img]graemlins/1pissed.gif[/img]

Yanez, not all of them. As was said: preserve the balance. That does not mean all, but if we can get a virus into the kobold population like we did with rabbits...

Now wait a minute? What did you bastard done with the rabbits? :D

I will report to [img]graemlins/choc.gif[/img] so i suggest you run to your home and barricade yourself up! :D


No offense meant.

lol i've spent ages reading this but it was great

Now wait a minute? What did you bastard done with the rabbits? :D

I will report to [img]graemlins/choc.gif[/img] so i suggest you run to your home and barricade yourself up! :D


No offense meant. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm already at home, and I've lined the flamethrowers up, so I can BURN you nad your rabbit army! :D :D :D MWAHAHAHAHA! :D

[ 08-03-2003, 05:53 AM: Message edited by: Dragonshadow ]