"You are under no obligation to make a voluntary donation. However, if no without-obligation voluntary donations are recieved, this website will shut down. Have a nice day."

Pfft! Even the nonprofit Girl Scouts sell cookies.

Why not sell avatars, desktop images, Ironworks t-shirts, etc., with all proceeds going to the upkeep of Ironworks? I'm all for it, even if other people here are not. I know from experience that "voluntary" usually isn't. Since Ironworks has many >18 members, things might be different. Then again, it might not.

As far as I can tell, Ziroc is the ringleader of this circus. Many people support Ironworks, yes, but the cash for this place has to come from somewhere. Nobody goes to a website specifically to see banner ads or popups, but the cash for this place has to come from somewhere.

<font color=steelblue> Great idea! [img]graemlins/awesomework.gif[/img] IW T-Shirts! There is all kinds of stuff Z could sell. But wait...there is the whole tax thing. And then we would all be fighting over some "first issue" "mint condition" Avatar. It could get messy. I need to get the gibbies back in training. [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] </font>

On the banner and/or pop-up issue, if it comes to that (see the frontpage of the site, BTW), I vote that banners are preferred to pop-ups. ;)

"You are under no obligation to make a voluntary donation. However, if no without-obligation voluntary donations are recieved, this website will shut down. Have a nice day."

Pfft! Even the nonprofit Girl Scouts sell cookies.

Why not sell avatars, desktop images, Ironworks t-shirts, etc., with all proceeds going to the upkeep of Ironworks? I'm all for it, even if other people here are not. I know from experience that "voluntary" usually isn't. Since Ironworks has many >18 members, things might be different. Then again, it might not.

As far as I can tell, Ziroc is the ringleader of this circus. Many people support Ironworks, yes, but the cash for this place has to come from somewhere. Nobody goes to a website specifically to see banner ads or popups, but the cash for this place has to come from somewhere.</font>[/QUOTE]<font color=plum>ALL of these ideas were discussed - and considered - several months ago. The idea of "special avatars" was <font color=yellow>EXTREMELY</font> divisive. Many people felt it would create a "caste system" and were completly against it. Several long-term members threatened to leave if it occurred.

<font color=yellow>Ironworks merchandise</font> was another suggestion. Everything from T-shirts and coffee mugs to mouse pads. All good ideas...but these cost money to make and would require even more of <font color=yellow>Ziroc's</font> time as he tried to keep up with the orders, account for the money coming in, and ship the merchandise out.

We also discussed banners and pop-ups. But in the end....NONE of these measures were necessary - because the MEMBERS pitched in and donated enough money to meet the need....and it was a huge chunk of change at the time (around $2,000.00 for the new server and other expenses).

If I recall correctly, the monthly cost for <font color=yellow>Ironworks</font> is somewhere around $250.00. All that would require is 25 members donating $10.00 per month. That's 25 people out of 11,000 - it should be easy enough to reach. Even if the costs are a little higher, it still shouldn't take more than 50 members donating regularly to meet the goal every month.

I've kept my opinions to myself on this issue since the last discussion, because their was a lot of emotion on both sides. I received a very "biting" remark from one member because I supported the use of special avatars for regular contributers. Since I was in the minority, and things were starting to get a little ugly, I just decided to keep quiet on the issue. But I've given it a lot of thought over the months and I truly believe this to be the best overall solution.

A few "established members" (as <font color=lime>Magik</font> so eloquently put it) willing and able to shoulder the cost of keeping <font color=yellow>Ironworks</font> running with no obligation or recognition placed on anybody. That would give Dan one less thing to worry about each month while keeping <font color=yellow>IW</font> available for all of us.</font>

Call me stupid, but there does not have to be anything formally in place. I mean, there is nothing preventing any members from sending a monthly donation. If anyone wants to do that, they could start today. I mean, Z does not have to get something formal in place. It would save alot of wear and tear on Z for people do just do it and him not have to take the time to set up something.

We are not talking thousands of dollars a month here either. As I said before, if a handful of people would commit to send modest amounts each month, Dan would never have to make another post like this again.

Sure, Reeka, but an automatic function would ensure we actually *paid* each month. As with other money we send out, we just might forget. Allowing some sort of monthly (or other period of time) withdrawal on an automatic basis is more for Ziroc's sake than ours - as it ensures his cash flow.

BTW, I hope you don't mind that I have a crush on your sig. :D

You beat me to it, Timber. I can't remember to do anything on a regular basis, so <font color=pink>Galadria</font> <l>nags me</l>, er, reminds me on a regular basis. :D $5 a month from one of my credit cards would be no pain, andit would net Ziroc $60 a year.

[ 03-31-2003, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: Attalus ]

I don't mind if you have crush on my sig, hun. ;)

it would be sad if IW fell down this is my haven the first forum I ever posted in my LIFE. I wish I can help but I am underage. Just a couple more years and I'd be 18. *sigh*

Still no word from the Z-man. Ziroc, are you in the clear yet man????