They ARE a concern, that's why they were intercepted. I just don't understand why they are giving them back.

They didnt have a choice. Theres no law that stops Yemen from having SCUDs. I dont think there is a law that stops North Korea from selling them either.

I don't think that laws would help here, now matter whether they are dealing with having or selling SCUDs (or whatever). I couldn't imagine, that anybody would really care...

Thought I would share a few comments as a fellow member, not as a moderator. I live in South-East Asia where a sizable portion of the world's Muslim population live.

I have Muslim neighbours, Muslim schoolmates, Muslim relatives, Muslim friends. Although I am a non-Muslim, we get along just fine. If you come here and visit, you will come to realise that they will not shun you just because you have white skin, it may even surprise some of you that they will welcome you with open arms. Why, most of them have friends in USA, Canada and/or European countries like Germany, England, France, etc... and/or Australia.

The key in all this is tolerance. I know they are not allowed to do some things, they know I am uncomfortable with some things. We cater for each other the best we can.

It is the extremists that give them a bad name, just as how the sex scandals smeared the name of Priests around the world, or KKK, or neo-Nazis, etc... It would be foolish to assume that a religion or a race has no black sheep, but it is also equally foolish to assume that all are black sheep.

So while I and my Muslim friends wish Osama to be dead and good riddance, we also wish that certain people stop wholesale labelling worshippers of Islam as effigy-burning, American-hating, flag-tearing, vengeful people. It is simply not the case.

Which was why I was particularly upset by all the travel advisories against SEA countries. What happened to the battle cry that we shall not let the terrorists to dominate how we do things? That we shall not fear them? That we shall go on with life despite what they do, because we shall never let them win.

Cheers... ...

No assumptions - I get this from muslims

Mind you, generalizations do get you in trouble. One of the kindest, gentlest people I know is a shiite muslim - generally considered to be the most extremist and violent of the muslim sects.

I really didn't think anyone would ask somebody this when they had to work with them every day - I thought maybe you'd talk to somebody on the street, or something. But never let it be said I made it difficult for you and your co-workers, by all means blame it on me! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I suggest you explain it to her, and apologize on my behalf. Perhaps a printed copy of this message may be in order... :D </font>[/QUOTE]The assumption you made was that myself and my muslim friend live in America.
That's an assumption.

You have veered from talking about 'all' muslims to talking about 'muslim terrorists'. You have gone from a generalisation to a specific group.

No-one will argue that Muslim extremists want world domination.

I know this coz a bloke down the pub told me!

*sighs*
Like Donut already pointed out, you're switching from talking about all muslims to talking about all muslim extremists suddenly, hardly the explanation I was looking for... I was actually calling you out on the blatant generalizations you were making about all muslims in the world, generalizations you came up with by talking to muslim extremists as you're suddenly saying now, while earlier on you stated your "fact sources" were non-muslim Arabs.
And if you *did* talk to extremists, that's hardly what I'd call representative for the entire muslim population... It's like asking a member of the KKK about his worldview and his fellow Americans; is it really all that strange if that worldview is clouded and biased?
If you were "forgetting" the explanation about why *all* muslims want world domination in your opinion though still feel that way, I ask you once again, please elaborate. If not and you decide to take those words back, I have nothing more to say. But if you really base all your "facts" on personal experiences and on hear'say, that's your choice; just don't expect me to automatically buy it.

[ 12-18-2002, 06:34 AM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

How do you tell when a politician is lying? His lips move. :D

Seriously, look up the capabilities of the SPY-1 radar (the main tracking component of Aegis, mentioned as one arm of the new ABM system) and compare it with the characteristics of yer typical Ballistic Missile (terminal velocity, target size, etc).

The time the warhead spends in the firing range of the defensive battery is just too short, and the weapon system would extremely unlikely to intercept the warhead even if the radar could get a solution in time to fire...and you wouldn't get more than one shot per launcher used. Doesn't sound like a very useful system to me, particularly on a dollars-spent view.

All muslims want the entire world to be muslim, that's a central tenet of the religion, and it's a "promise" in their religious writings.

Some are more polite about it than others, but the central fact is they fully believe violence is justified in converting others to their religion, and defending the "purity" of their own group.

I don't waste my time at "the pub". [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I know this because:

1) Muslims told me.
2) Non muslim arabs told me.
3) South Africans with intimate dealings with muslim groups in SA told me.
4) The koran "told" me.

Some muslims won't tell you, but still think it. Some are "live and let live", but all believe the same things - that's kinda the definition of a religious group.

Read my message to donut. I've got several sources, some non-muslim arab, some muslim, come south africans. And last but not least - their own religious writings.

I must admit, that's an excellent point. Much like the policeman that gets a jaundiced view of society by constantly associating with the criminal element I've spent a lot of time keeping tabs on various terrorist groups, both muslim and not - it would skew my viewpoint if not countered. (gad, I'm glad to be away from that...it was burning me out)

But I will repeat, I know a lot of muslims socially as well. My shiite associate is one of the kindest men I know - but he still "jokes" about us "corrupt westerners"...but I'm not so sure he's not serious. He freely talks about the destiny of islam taking over the world, and fully believes it is inevitable IT WILL HAPPEN, even if everybody has to be dragged kicking and screaming. We have a lot of fun "debating" this stuff. [img]tongue.gif[/img] I will say this - he's got a sense of humour.

Hearsay is when you repeat someone elses witness; I am relating my experiences - a totally different kettle of fish.

All muslims do want world rule - it's a central tenet of their religion.

<font color="#ff00cc">Umm Rokken, The Reagan Era Starwars has nothing to do with the current plans to deploy ABM's. The Bush ABM system is being developed under some older research and current $$'s being spent on new black projects. Someone Mentioned the SPY-1 Radar system [img]smile.gif[/img] hehe Yep SPY-1's and their upgrades would be just dandy for shooting down incomming warheads, (see Clancy's Red Rabbit Novel, he gets the tech exactly right) The ABM system is not inteneded to be a "false safety blanket to quiet the public" it will be a working system that will not be 100% effective untill further work is done, shit no system ever fielded for anything has ever been 100% effective. Just because it isn't 100% are you saying we should just leave that door wide open? The ABM's will be built, they will be a bargaining chip on any future issues with China and or N. Korea.

In the end the socilists and pacifist amongst us will always argue that every dollar spent on defense programs is wasted and should have been spent paying to help the indigent or put into schools. Guess what, Federal Government does not have a constitutional priority placed on public schools. The federal government has two things as their primary concern, Foreign Relations and National Defense. All the other shit is secondary. (I suppose Interstate commerce is there too). Anyway, hope this cleared up some stuff....and didn't stirr too many pots ;) </font>