China.

<font color=orange>Here is a link showing the plane hitting the Pentagon. It was taken from a security camera at the Pentagon.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/720851.asp

In the first frame notice the Airliner hitting the ground just before it hits the building. It's a the right side of the frame. So much for the missile hitting the Pentagon theory! What a bunch of poppycock! Shaide, please come up with better facts or find some place else to spew your venom!</font>

To be honest i couldnt see the plane in that.

I can see it, but it is hard to make out clearly, so I'll just have to trust the witnesses. ;)

I think that video could be made alot more recognizable by starting it 10 seconds earlier, slowing the frame rate down, and zooming in since it seems to be of pretty good quality to start with, but if you did that, then someone would say it's been altered. DIYDDIYD!

EDIT - After reading the small story, I see that only 5 frames are involved, so slowing it down won't help, but I still think they could be zoomed.

[ 01-23-2003, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

<font color="#ffccff">
Umm Shaide
None of those links proves anything you said.
The Geocities ones are useless flap from nobody's.
the ones not in english I cant read so don't know what they say
and the others that I can read are obviously slanted and biased
but still do not prove anyo of the incredible claims you made.

The Big Lie is a conspiracy nut theory, might as well put up links to
the Men in black, Roswell, The Grassy Knoll and the Black Helicopters too.

Out of curiosity, would It be accurate to call you Eisen-Dram-Shaide?
</font></font>[/QUOTE]That’s unkind Magik, Very Unkind Indeed.
I am absent for while and you decide to accuse me of morphing nym.
Shame on you.
May I suggest you investigate some literature on critical thinking?

China.</font>[/QUOTE]IIRC, China’s Army Is mainly conscripts who are paid rubbish.
Number's aint everything.

Most of their Air force is also Things like outdated MiG copies armed with mostly Cannon instead of missiles, Even their most adavanced planes are I belive Su-27 flankers which are outdated
I believe the navy has some very good Anti-ship missiles but Overall, Like Russia Before them, The Communist Armies are not very good now.
Conscripts don’t fight well (look at Vietnam)
IIRC the Chinese government use the principle of shoddy production, but huge amounts of them, tanks, Rifles, Planes.
This worked in WW2, Soviet union against the Nazis.
But now, what with Smart Warfare etc,

Technology is supreme, for example in the last war in Iraq US Abrams tanks took point blank hits from Iraqi tanks and still blew the enemy up.
I think it is indisputable that America has the most powerful army in the world today.

Just to clarify one thing before it gets out of hand...Dramnek/Eisenschwartz and Shaide are not the same person - or in any case, they're not posting from the same IPs. They both may share unpopular, some might even say extreme, views - but they are not the same person. Just to clear that up. ;)

Now let's do less mudslinging and more debating, by sticking to the topic, eh?

I don't think you'll get much debate on that, but shaide did ask who's army was the "biggest". [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color="#ffccff">:::SNIP original post to Eisen,:::

No unkindness ment, you both seem to do the same kinds of things in your post. It was just a question after all.

Edit: This post edited because Memnoch was 100% right.</font> </font>

[ 01-24-2003, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

<font color="#ffccff">There were many eyewitnesses on the highway that the plane crossed (within yards of the pentagon itself) it even clipped some of the light posts along the highway on its way in. There is absolutely no doubt that it went in...Having visited the scene just hours after the instance I can attest to the light poles being sheered off.</font>