Hey, I don't object to the United States taking out bin Laden. I just object to the fact that many innocent civilians were killed in the process and we really didn't even try to do anything about it. I object to the fact that the president and his fellow Republicans bash anyone who raises questions about the war in a McCarthyesque way and calls them "unpatriotic". I object to the fact that we didn't seek the UN's approval first. I object to the fact that we're torturing prisoners, and I object to the fact that suddenly, taking out Osama bin Laden is no longer the top priority (probably because we can't find him).</font>[/QUOTE]Do you live in the same world that I do?? We didn't do anything to try and limit casualties??? ARE YOU NUTS? The US military more than any other military organization in history tries to limit civilian casualties, Men and Women of the US armed forces die each year because of the way we conduct our operations to limit civilian casualties, my god, you act like we are dropping bombs like it was done in world war 2. One of the driving reasons we spend so much to develop "smart" bombs is so we can hit ONLY the target we intend to. Our pilots fly overly complicated highly dangerous routes all devised just to avoid the possibility of harming civilians. You accused me of not having seen the world, you were wrong there and now it appears you know NOTHING about US Military doctrine.

You are a wise man, MagiK. </font>[/QUOTE]ROTFLMAO. Nice post Arledrian. One small tip though - it is best if you add a smiley so that everyone knows you are being sarcastic. [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]ROFL! Of course he was being sarcastic. Right? :D
...Right? http://pandemonium.phpwebhosting.com...cons/uhoh2.gif</font>[/QUOTE]Nasty nasty, you didn't read his follow ups did you? I took his comment at face value, if you dont wish to discuss the issue fine, but Not one person on here has any more valid point than I do, and my points are backed up with a little experience, most of the replies and criticisms are just pot shots at me personally and do not refute or put in place any more valid theories, thoughts or ideas.

That is a horribly barbaric solution, and only the sickest of the sick would dare propose genocide!

Quote:

Israel has had plenty of provocation to go in and occupy all of the west bank, but thats just an opinion and it is irrelevant, since the stated goal of the PLO and the surrounding arab nations is the elimination of the jews, I do believe the Israelis have the right to do whatever they deem nesecary to survive as a race and a nation.

Okay - suppose Russia grabs some displaced persons and decides to create a country for them. Not in its own borders, mind you, but in ours. It sets up a nice comfy little country in what used to be New England, and all New Englanders (including this one) are ejected, and the closest we can get to our homes is New York. Or, if this will hit closer to home, suppose they occupy Maryland and throw you out of your home.

And then, when all is said and done, Russia and the new country's residents wonder why, when they give you Baltimore back, you don't just shut up about it.

Do these people want to eliminate Isreal? I'm sure they do! I'm sure if I were in a similar situation, I'd want my home back as well. The suicide bombings are the product of religious fanaticism and frustration - frustration that the Israeli leadership continues to oppress them. I don't support the suicide bombers, but I feel for the Palestinians, many of whom are innocent people who just want their homes back.

The situation won't get better by killing Palestinians. And, guess what? It won't get better by killing Israelis. It will get better when the now-displaced Palestinians have a country of their own once again.

Unfortunately, Sharon is a lunatic and Arafat is rather weak at this point, so negotiations aren't going to make much headway. I approve of Colin Powell's efforts (and I'm glad to see the Bush administration is finally backing away from Sharon), but I doubt it'll do much good in the long run. The administration most likely to broker a peace deal in that area was unfortunately cheated out of victory by a bunch of illegal absentee military ballots.</font>[/QUOTE]Alex you are out of it again, the USA did not create Israel, and the lad that was used to create it was not stolen from anyone. I don't have tiime or patience to do a history leson for you but look it up.

There is not proof that the death penalty makes the crime rate go down (don't know how to express myself well here [img]tongue.gif[/img] ). It doesn't help, so I don't see why we should go down to their (murderers') level with executing people.

[quote]Originally posted by MagiK:

Quote:

Originally posted by Grojlach: [qb] Thats an artificial cost Grojlach, in actuality after the person is convicted in theory (if we could get a decent justice system) it should cost roughly 57 cents to execute a prisoner, based on current ammo costs. Any cost over and above that are artificial costs induced by our current justice system. I AM aware that not everyo9ne convicted is guilty, but thankfully with DNA and other new testing, we are rapidly becoming able to at least clear the innocent. There are many tens of thousands of cases where the criminal is quilty without a bdoubt, has even admitted it and yet they suck up millions and millions of dollars in resources. Murders, rapists, and the like have no benefit to society and should be dealt with like the trash they are.

You named DNA research. I have a feeling that will cost way more than the 57 cts you just mentioned that are needed for operating the electrical chair...

[ 04-17-2002, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

i'm just glad the weak bunch is gone, but i'm afraid the newcomers
won't do much better anyway, do you really wanna talk about
politics ? most of the time it ends up pretty messy

Also, you guys forgot to address my point about [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] bunnies [img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img] taking over the planet. All the rest is just so much sniffling in a cloud of glass.

[img]graemlins/bunny.gif[/img]

Erm, I don't know exactly how it goes, but I think they have a temporary government for a while, until the elections, which will be in about a month. So, no, there's no chaos, and your friends shouldn't be in danger.
At least that's how I think the Dutch government works, and probably also some other European ones. [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]no chaos ??? you ever been to a housepary in amsterdam ?

Sure, lets kill every criminal in jail. I think the death penalty is more expensive then keeping someone imprissoned for a long time. Not to mention that only a small number of prisoners commited capital crimes such as murder. Or did you want to kill them all?</font>[/QUOTE]You know...you criticize me for taking things to ridiculoous extremes...you seem pretty ready to do it your self though :(
</font>[/QUOTE]Depends on what you call extreme. I think its just common sense that even criminals get treated as humans. Do you know how many inocents are executed each year?

I'll second that. Live would be a whole lot simpler.