Well, it could be because I feel like I've been burned, that's all.

Mark</font>[/QUOTE]<font color="#00ccff">I didn't delete anything, and I didn't say I couldn't trust an atheist, I said I couldn't trust the few that I know. I didn't mean the ones I know on IW I ment the ones I knew of in the real world, they are pretty much people you DO not turn your back on. BUT I never spread that statement to mean all atheists. Sorry if it made you look bad. You wouldn't be the only person ever to mesinterpret a post [img]smile.gif[/img] I may have done that a time or two myself ;) </font>

[ 10-25-2002, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

<font color="plum">WOW, <font color="deeppink">K.T.</font>, you're right....how in the WORLD did I miss TWO Religion threads. [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img]

Actually, I started to Reply to this thread yesterday, then I realized it was a "spin-off" from <font color="silver">Iron Rangers</font> "Rambling" thread...so I went back to read it. *Sheesh*....four full pages of posts to catch up on.

Well, I'm here now and ready to add my [img]graemlins/twocents.gif[/img] worth.

<font color="silver">Iron Ranger</font> - I agree with the opening statement in your original Post. I have had several atheists (both here and in real life) claim that Christians and other "beleivers" are "weak minded individuals who just can't accept that this life is ALL there is". However, in my discussions, I've come to realize that - at least sometimes - they are just expressing an honost opinion and dont' mean to be "insulting". It's the same as when people accuse Christians of being "arrogant" because we believe "our way" is the only way into Heaven. I believe the Bible is the literal word of God, so I DO believe that Jesus is the "only" way into Heaven. I don't mean any arrogance by that statement. I don't feel any "moral superiority" to non-Christians. Yet, I understand that it does "sound" arrogant. So I try to keep an "open mind" when listening to - and trying to counter - the arguments offered by atheists.

<font color="lime">Magik</font> - I've read your comments and questions in both posts. I would have to agree with the most prevalent answer about the "moral foundation" of atheists can be attributed to "human nature". Several of my college friends are atheists. Two of them were raised in Christian homes, but came to discover that the Bible and God simply didn't make sense to them. That saddens me, but I still consider them to be very good friends and would trust them just as strongly as I trust my Christian friends. Would they sacrifice themselves for me? There is no way to know. Would I sacrifice myself for them? Again, I couldn't say for certain unless we actually ended up in that situation. I would like to think that I would, but I can't honostly say that the answer is definitely Yes.

Well, that should be enough to "push" the conversation along a little farther. I look forward to all comments - pro and con.</font>

''Man makes himself'' Jean Paul Sartre. Now there was a real atheist, if you want to know how atheism and existentialism can be moral pick up a short book called Existentialism and humanism. Oh and no I don't agree with everything he ever said and I sure would love to argue with him for a few hours. In a kind of friendly way, but i think he makes a lot of sense.

Anyone have some input? I'm eager to know what you all think. I'm sorry if I'm going off topic, but deism is semi related, I think..

I cannot help but concur with all of this

LOL!

THis brings up the question of why is human life considered worth more than animal life or why we need morals at all. Also , why are the needs of many considered more important than the needs of self?Why is being selfish considered such a bad thing?? As for "why we are here?", if the answer isnt within you then you dont deserve an answer. Also I think the need for an answer to why anyone is here is more important than the actual answer.Why do people feel this need to be told why they are here and why dont they already know the answer.

Personally I think that people are, or at least were, on the first page, a bit hostile towards Mark on this thread. All he did was to post some famous Atheist quotes. I don't believe that I saw anyone complain when Yorick posted some famous quotes a while back.

Your religious beliefs have nothing to do with your morals. Though I'd say that a lot of religious people with "morals" actually don't have any since they're just fearing punishment rather than wanting to do what's right.

Neb, you're wrong on two counts. ;)

First, I responded on the first page and wasn't the least bit hostile to Mark. (At least I think it was the first page).

Second, to say that religious people only do what they do out of fear of punishment isn't true. It shows a misunderstanding on your part that makes you seem judgemental of that which you don't believe in.

NOw,you don't have to believe in my religion, but you shouldn't assume because someone is religious they're not moral because their morality stems from fear. It simply isn't true, and the statement is more than a bit insulting to those of us here who are religious.

<font color="#00ccff">
I completely agree B-Man. I also disagree that I was hostile toward Mark on the first page. I was merely trying to set the record straight about what I had and had not said. And to correct an assumption about A. Einstein.

The idea that religious people are motivated by fear seems to be taken from a page in the middle ages and does not show a good grasp of current religious philosophy. Im sure there are some fire and brimstone types out there, however, I have to believe they are the minority.</font>