Indeed. Another problem is the finality of execution. You really have to be DAMN sure you've got the right guy (or gal). With life imprisonment there is still opportunity to make some sort of amends if you get it wrong. With killing, it is for good. The 'wrong guy' occurs more often than one would like to believe. So when an innocent person is put to death where does that leave the state? 'If you wanna make an omelette you gotta break a few eggs'? I don't buy that for a second. Death is just simply something that should be dealt out as little as is humanly possible.

Yeah yeah yeah I'm a clueless ideologue. But f**k, you gotta start somewhere.

I can uunderstand perfectly. I have known people that HAVE gone through this. And I reiterate: killing them will NOT bring the children back

I am not saying that, if somebody did such a thing to a child of mine, i wouldn't do anythign about it. However, that does NOT make it right, or rasonable, or even worthwhile

I believe in redeption, but often ppl do not change until they had hit rock bottom. there is no beautiful, magical formulation to recreate this process humanly. it is more a work of magic, than intention. as people do not like being a victim of others' evil, the criminal will not like the fact of they will get executed. if by any chance the criminal escapes (somehow, by law, culture, luck) the punishment, and DO become a good person, then this is the work of life too. either way, live with it.

especially to a child, these ppl in ancient greek myth will go to hell, and be forever tortured. I repeat too, the criminals had ABSOLUTE CONTROL over what they did.

[ 09-21-2002, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: 250 ]

I can uunderstand perfectly. I have known people that HAVE gone through this. And I reiterate: killing them will NOT bring the children back

I am not saying that, if somebody did such a thing to a child of mine, i wouldn't do anythign about it. However, that does NOT make it right, or rasonable, or even worthwhile</font>[/QUOTE]It may not bring them back in most cases I've read it brings a much needed sense of closure to the family and friends involved.

It may not be right, or reasonable, or even worthwhile but it's something that some people deem neccesary.

I can uunderstand perfectly. I have known people that HAVE gone through this. And I reiterate: killing them will NOT bring the children back

I am not saying that, if somebody did such a thing to a child of mine, i wouldn't do anythign about it. However, that does NOT make it right, or rasonable, or even worthwhile</font>[/QUOTE]It may not bring them back in most cases I've read it brings a much needed sense of closure to the family and friends involved.

It may not be right, or reasonable, or even worthwhile but it's something that some people deem neccesary.</font>[/QUOTE]yes, I agree. most people here would probally see this as absurd, none-sense, including you, Sigmar. but moral is the most effective shield against the soul. somethings may go strongly against your belief system, and seemed totally immoral, but in your finest form of intellect, you don't always find the soulful solution.

one good example is Sigmar's family needs closure.

no matter how much we argue, we cannot convince each other. so I will leave it like that, and I wont go around accusing ppl being cruel.

Cats and dogs dont rape.They lack the dexterity, strength and physical arcitecture(sp) to hold down another of their kind and methodicaly violate them.They also lack the inner drives that make a human into a rapeist.I can say with all certainty that if someone raped my wife or children a death sentance would pale in comparison to what I would do to them in the long years they spent in my basement. Also to clear the air, I am fasinated by murder and torture.Maybe if there was a little bit more of it in polite society people would be a little more polite in society.Maybe if a criminal had to worry about running into people like me, instead of going to a climate controled jail with T.V., the internet, a phone,food, and all the other things they give prisoners to make jail like a giant slumber party they might think twice before rapeing a 9 yr old girl.

Here is a link to a story about how 2 9 month old babies were raped.I just dont understand how people can be so opposed to removeing people who do things like this from the world in a permenant kind of way.

http://iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&...3319382M652485

[ 09-21-2002, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: The Hunter of Jahanna ]

well said, The Hunter of Jahanna. without shadow, nothing is complete. but I am afraid these ppl will call you "cruel" and "mutilated" again.

plus, this idea just hit me on the fly here. for whoever condamned the lack of humanity/love/forgiveness here, you can be forgiving and loving, then go away and be it. and wanting the perpetraitor to be punished for the crimes that he committeed was lacking the virtue of forgiveness? who are you, other than God, to ask someone to forgive?

[ 09-21-2002, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: 250 ]

well said, The Hunter of Jahanna. without shadow, nothing is complete. but I am afraid these ppl will call you "cruel" and "mutilated" again.

plus, this idea just hit me on the fly here. for whoever condamned the lack of humanity/love/forgiveness here, you can be forgiving and loving, then go away and be it. and wanting the perpetraitor to be punished for the crimes that he committeed was lacking the virtue of forgiveness? who are you, other than God, to ask someone to forgive?</font>[/QUOTE]First of all 250, I have seen no one ask or demand that we all forgive rapists. In fact I am pretty sure that no one did. Maybe you should read them again.
Second, so far all I've seen is people saying that a lust for torture and retribution is inhumane and wrong, not that murderers or rapists should be forgiven... please get the facts straight.

here, Miss

first, torturing and murdering is wrong, but expressing the fascination of it, is not. there is a proper limit to everything. expressing the desire to punish these criminals are OK as long as your life is not dedicated by these needs, in that case one is consumed by that hatred. at one point of my life, I've been activately "planning" how to punish these ppl. is that so wrong? should I switch my Aligment to Chaotic evil?

btw, like I said, nothing is ever complete without its shadow. this shadow is the primal need to avenge those that hurt us, or our loved ones. like the planning, the dark thoughts I had. if one gives the shadow a body, instead of defending against it with moral, one will tend the soul's need, like tending the garden of man's inner world. if on the other hand, one sees the shadow as an enemy, drives it away with anger or pity, or defends against it with moral, the shadow will find a way to control, to resurface. self-manifestion is what shadow does. so, it is more like a method of cultivation, than ... well, wrong. of course, there is something that is purely evil, like the acts of these criminals, these are not shadows, these are impenatrable darkness.

and of course, not EVERY ONE here examines these thoughts, or do not bother to do so, but that does not mean something valuable can not be found. so like I said, nothing is complete without its shadow. this is too broad a topic for me to explain with few words, I do not think I did my job at all.

second, did I get my facts straight?

[ 09-21-2002, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: 250 ]

<font color=skyblue>It would suffice to allow the ones that raped to be raped...or to live in fear of such a thing happening to them.

Ziroc's notion was a cool one for me.

Throw them in prison and make them wear a pink t-shirt that has the picture of the victim on it, so that everyone will know exactly what he did. If he took the shirt off...he would be tatooed with the girl's resemblance on his chest and back. </font>

<font color=lightgreen>Wait...I gotta better idea...Rapists should receive madatory sex-change...That would be good enough for me. Let them lose their "weapon". When a person kills...you take away their weapons...and it is a felony violation of parole to own a weapon ever again...so...take his pecker away from him and return the #*@% to society if you wanna. But just take away his "weapon" first. </font>

[ 09-21-2002, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]