Ironworks Gaming Forum - To The Menfolk... No Need To Be Insulting! 8*(

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- - To The Menfolk... No Need To Be Insulting! 8*( (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67863)

Quote:

Originally posted by Stealthy:
I would hate for anybody to leave the board, especially over a misunderstanding. I hope LadyRae reconsiders and does come back and discusses this with the men concerned, so a better understabnding can be achieved and these problems can be avoided in the future. I have always loved this board more than any other, because the people who come here are the best and problems are talked through, without resorting to the levels of other boards. Long may it stay that way.

Hear, Hear !!!

One more thing... Moiraine made a good point. In Mexico,there is a saying that translate to "You can win an argument, or a friend. Rarely can you do both." (It sounds better in Spanish, really)

An apology is definitely in order, that we hurt a friend. It doesn't matter if we have the right to say what we did, it doesn't matter that it was a joke, it doesn't matter that we didn't mean to hurt anyone.

That thread hurt a friend. And for THAT, we should apologize.

Choose a friend over your pride. It's that simple.

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http://publish.hometown.aol.com/tobb...s/rudedawg.jpg
The RudeDawg
Known in these Forgotten Realms as Perin LightEyes

Moiraine, I commend you on your well-expressed ideas. If more people could express themselves as eloquently in their native tongue as you do in a second language, there would be far fewer misunderstandings.
For my part, I'm sorry to see people hurt for whatever reason, but most especially when it happens in an unintentional way. While one may be able to logically explain or defend a thought or deed, if someone was hurt by it, logic and intent become moot. If you truly care about the feelings of the person who was hurt, you will do whatever is needed to make them feel alright again, regardless of how right you may be or may think you are.
If there is any other place on the whole of the internet where something like this discussion could happen in such a civilized manner, I have yet to hear tell of it.
Fear divides, Love unites.

Hi Claude, missed you! I liked your points too, but have to say in my first job I was a boy of 16 with 5 other men and over 150+ women. Grew up very fast I can tell you! Thinking about it, I may sound chauvinstic sometimes because I am so relaxed around women and say things spontaneously without thinking of their perceived understanding. I remember I was cracking jokes about gays once and since I am totally non-homophobic I forgot there was gays present. Luckily, they laughed, as they knew it wasn't a dig or a statement, merely a joke about a stereotype. It can be easy to offend, if we are thoughtless.

Must go now, but I hope things work out

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http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/stealthy/Stealthy.gif
My doctor told me to eat more, but all this spam hasn't helped.

Click here for the album site.

Shadow Mage of the OHF.

Funny Bone of the LH

Quote:

Originally posted by Moiraine:
Guys, male guys, I can understand why LadyRae got angry. Please listen. It is very true that some professions still hold a good many more men than women. Mine is, I am a computer engineer. And it is also very true that, as a result, as a woman working in such a profession, you find yourselves living in a male's world. More so if you happen to play computer games. It's my case. And when you hear these little jokes you made on the incriminated thread, again and again and again every day, sometimes it grates on your nerves, because it bites a little self-confidence out of you. The point is, these jokes weren't intended to be sexist BECAUSE THEY CALLED FOR A SIMILAR BANTERING FROM US WOMEN.

But put yourself in LadyRae's shoes for just one moment. Imagine : you are at work, and outnumbered 10 to 1 (yes, this is my case), your manager is a woman, your manager's manager is a woman (yes, in the 21th century, they still choose a woman as a manager rather than a man !), 9 out of 10 of your colleagues are women, and everyday at the coffee machine you are surrounded by women bantering among themselves with all the same little jokes, every day, every day. You see ? They are NOT intended to make you feel bad, but they wear you down, a little every day. And when you are so badly outnumbered, sometimes it is hard to banter back ...

Imagine further - you had one of these days at work, your colleague got a promotion and you didn't, although you are every bit as competent as she is (but you are a male) - you come home, wanting to put all that behind, light your computer ... and you find yourself in the middle of the same bad jokes. Again. So you get mad ! And everybody around says "Hey ! What is wrong with him today ? What I said was not THAT bad !". No, it was not THAT bad. But you come on top of a HEAP of the same 'not that bad' stuff.

Now, she got mad at YOU guys because she thought YOU could understand - generally, we don't even bother to get mad, because when we do, it gets worse - 9 men out of 10 persons around, so statistically around 3 of the 9 men start saying that, sure, we can't expect women to bear the same stress amount than men, sure.

Please try to understand please.

VERY WELL SAID, Moraine! And so calmly and reasonably, too. I have not read the 'offending' thread - don't want to - but I sympathise very much with LadyRae. I hope she doesn't stay gone 'out of here'. The guys are all pretty nice, generally, I think, and if she has also considered them as friends she will have been very hurt to find they could be also be crude and 'laddish'. But they are males. Males - even the very best of them - when they get together in a crowd are almost ALWAYS crude and laddish. It's the way they establish their masculinity with each other, (for heavens' sake!) and it's better than establishing it by having a fist-fight! It is FAR better for a woman's peace of mind NOT to visit purely male threads! Let 'em get on with it!
And let the males keep out of female threads, unless invited in! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

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Smile! Life is too short for bitching! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...s/EEhearts.gif

Fljotsdale

Quote:

Originally posted by Sazerac:
But what do I know. I'm just a jaded old male gaming hippie.

Just my opinion.

http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/saz1.gif

Just the tail end of your post....

I like youe attitude, Sazerac! NICE moderator! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...es/nibble6.gif

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Smile! Life is too short for bitching! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...s/EEhearts.gif

Fljotsdale

Well I'm sure I'm going to catch some hell for this but truthfully I dont give a damn. I'm so tired of people being offended by trivial bullshit in seemingly every facet of our society. There was nothing visciously obnoxious in the Testosterone thread and certainly nothing to be taken seriously. Since LadyRae was THAT distraught over absolutely nothing then maybe she should seek some counseling during her time away from the board or double her prozac prescription since the current dosage is apparently inadequate. Offended? Sorry. LofA

Quote:

Originally posted by RudeDawg:

I have been handcuffed, and pulled out of my car, because I am the wrong color in the neighborhood than I was driving through. My clients (I deal with retirees) still mention that they always liked to hire Mexicans on their ranches, because "you're such good workers, and cheap too."

RudeDawg? You don't even have to be the 'wrong' colour or race, sometimes. My son. 'White' man, 'white' country. Drivs a taxi and has long hair. Always getting stopped by the police for 'speeding'. Yes, he does drive too fast, he doesn't deny it - but the police pull him up in his little white taxi, doing 40 in a 30 limit, and let ordinary cars pass by doing 60-70. I've seen it. I was with him once and saw the police let by cars going at terrific speed. Ridiculous. Just because he drives a taxi and has long hair.

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Smile! Life is too short for bitching! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...s/EEhearts.gif

Fljotsdale

Quote:

Originally posted by RudeDawg:

I hope that you, LadyRae, KNOW that we meant no disrespect, or pain, from our thread.

Um - can you send her an e-mail to that effect? I'm sure she would be really pleased to hear from you. http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

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Smile! Life is too short for bitching! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...s/EEhearts.gif

Fljotsdale

Quote:

Originally posted by Fljotsdale:
RudeDawg? You don't even have to be the 'wrong' colour or race, sometimes. My son. 'White' man, 'white' country. Drivs a taxi and has long hair. Always getting stopped by the police for 'speeding'. Yes, he does drive too fast, he doesn't deny it - but the police pull him up in his little white taxi, doing 40 in a 30 limit, and let ordinary cars pass by doing 60-70. I've seen it. I was with him once and saw the police let by cars going at terrific speed. Ridiculous. Just because he drives a taxi and has long hair.

It is true...

Intolerance is a disease...

That's why I enjoy this forum.

It's a healthy mix of people from all over the world. Sharing ideas. Since most of us have never met, we don't judge each other on appearance (tho, you can see me, and the others, at STEALTHY'S site. I'm the cool guy. )
it's all about the ideas...

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http://publish.hometown.aol.com/tobb...s/rudedawg.jpg
The RudeDawg
Known in these Forgotten Realms as Perin LightEyes

Quote:

Originally posted by Absynthe:
For my part, I'm sorry to see people hurt for whatever reason, but most especially when it happens in an unintentional way. While one may be able to logically explain or defend a thought or deed, if someone was hurt by it, logic and intent become moot. If you truly care about the feelings of the person who was hurt, you will do whatever is needed to make them feel alright again, regardless of how right you may be or may think you are.
.

So, then, one good way to avoid offence is to eliminate offensive thinking from our minds. We need to STOP thinking sexist or racist thoughts, or derogatory thoughts about disabled people. We do it because people who are different to us SCARE us, even if we refuse to admit it. I am scared of people with mental disability. I admit it. I'm ashamed of it. I try hard not to be. I WAS scared of gay people. I still feel a touch nervous about them. But I have worked hard to overcome my fear. Fear of 'the other' CAN be overcome. It may take time, but we CAN get rid of all our negative thoughts and feelings and reactions. It just takes THE WILL TO DO IT! It takes tolerance and understanding and hoping that people will forgive us if we slip up...... http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

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Smile! Life is too short for bitching! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...s/EEhearts.gif

Fljotsdale