<font color = lightgreen>I am relieved that all the London-based IW folks are fine.

Religion had nothing to do with these attacks, just like religion had nothing to do with 11 September 2001 or the bombing attacks in Spain. Never forget that "Islamic terrorists" have very little to do with Islam; rather, they cloud their rhetoric in pseudo-religious babble when all they really want to do is blow s*** up and kill people.

The timing also had nothing to do with the Olympics, but it did have a lot to do with the G8. Detonating explosive devices near political leaders tends to get a lot of attention...or divert attention away from something else.</font>

Whatever you say I think these attacks are pathetic. There are 4-5 million people in metropolitan London and 50 gets killed. It's really nothing to be afraid of. They completely fail to leave an impact on me. Which is good in a sense as their intention is not to kill, but to threaten.
That is not to say that I am not sympathetic to the ones injured or killed. Just as I am sympathetic to those killed or injured in biking accidents, which by the way is more than the casualties from terror attacks.
Through logic Copenhagen must be next. Actually I figured they would have done Copenhagen during the crown princes wedding, but they didn't. See they don't have initiative nor the priviledge of choice. All they can do is load a few bombs on public transportation and hope for publicity.
Herostratus I call your bluff. You will not earn fame through infamy from my side.

Sucks.

This type of event is practically a tri-weekly occurence in Iraq these days. So while it is noteworthy that it occured in London, it is not new or even really unexpected.

I must admit to feeling a bit numb. When everyday it seems like the news reports somebody, somewhere has been blown up by a bomb. Eventually such events grow weerily accustom. I guess that still beats not caring in the first place.

My heart still goes out to the victims of violence.

</font>Ditto

Quote:

<font color = lightgreen> Religion had nothing to do with these attacks, just like religion had nothing to do with 11 September 2001 or the bombing attacks in Spain. Never forget that "Islamic terrorists" have very little to do with Islam;</font>

I have to disagree, the deeper radical muslims, islamofascists, islamists, whatever label you wish to apply, get in their studies of islam and it's strictures, traditions, and rules, the more likely they are to participate in such behavior. You've much less to worry about from the man running the quicky-mart that was born in Jordan but never goes to mosque, than you do from the man with a phd in "islamic studies" that forbids music, dancing, and singing (A man deeply involved in trying to get to the essence of his religion). I don't know how many times I've read about prisoners at GTMO, or other captured militants whose families said they never expected it because the person was deeply religious.

What was the line in the Bible, "Ye shall know them by their fruits" Matt 7:16, Unfortunately we've been seeing exactly what the fruits are for the last 1400 years.

Good point mate.

I am so proud to be a Londoner at the momment, proud of the people I work with who made it in to work, proud of my 20 year old stepaughter, who despite being offered the day off on friday, went to work on the underground, passing through Kings X, scene of one of the bombs on her way, proud of our emergency services, who reacted so fast, with little thought for themselves, proud of the everyday Londoners, involved in the bombs, who stayed to help others who were worse off than themselves.

Just proud of the spirit of this city and it's people, Black, White,Christian , Jew , Muslim, Hindu, sikh, Who are all in this together, and have the same message to the people that did this..
F**K YOU, IF YOU THINK YOU WILL BEAT US, WELL YOU JUST DONT KNOW US!!

<font color="cyan">Once again it's been said that we will never be beaten.

Very true.

But, I also have to say again that we will never beat them. This will go on.</font>

Great attitude, Londoners everywhere are giving up as we speak!

Great attitude, Londoners everywhere are giving up as we speak! </font>[/QUOTE]Run for the hills!! or a least parliment hill , for a nice day out.

Great attitude, Londoners everywhere are giving up as we speak! </font>[/QUOTE]It's not a pleasant statement, but it is a realistic one. As many attacks as police can prevent one will eventually slip through, as did the one that is the topic of this thread, I don't think they one this one simply because of the way Londoners reacted, They (Londoners) picked up the pieces, they didn't panic, they didn't riot, They are simply going on with their lives, and that is in fact the best way to defeat them. If they can't strike terror or change the way you live your life then they have failed.

From my point of view Englishmen and thus also Londoners have been used to the shadow of terrorism from the militant IRA days, which by my reckoning is 1920-2000. So a nation that has had to deal with the posibility of terrorism for 80 years are by circumstances pretty damn difficult to rattle.
My initial notion has only grown stronger since the day of the attack. This is really pitiful considering we are dealing with what is thought to be the supreme terror organisation. Is this really all they can accomplish?
I concur with the observation that this is simply an attack the slipped through the intelligence screen. We won't see anything of WTC magnitude again. They have no initiative and cannot call the shots. They have to operate with independant terror cells meaning they are incapable of forming a strategy. They are forced to seize targets of oppotunity.
We'll have to deal with this, but honestly I don't find it altogether that difficult. We have to deal with hurricanes, traffic accidents, stress and polution as well. It is not something extraordinary.

Good point mate.

I am so proud to be a Londoner at the momment, proud of the people I work with who made it in to work, proud of my 20 year old stepaughter, who despite being offered the day off on friday, went to work on the underground, passing through Kings X, scene of one of the bombs on her way, proud of our emergency services, who reacted so fast, with little thought for themselves, proud of the everyday Londoners, involved in the bombs, who stayed to help others who were worse off than themselves.

Just proud of the spirit of this city and it's people, Black, White,Christian , Jew , Muslim, Hindu, sikh, Who are all in this together, and have the same message to the people that did this..
F**K YOU, IF YOU THINK YOU WILL BEAT US, WELL YOU JUST DONT KNOW US!! </font>[/QUOTE]I think the country is proud of the people of London and the way in which the people of the city responded. The spirit shown is a credit to the country and it make me proud to call myself British. They shall never beat us. Their attacks only strengthen our will to prevail.

(don't really feel like getting into the arguements above, maybe when things are a bit less raw.)

Just out of idle couriousity(sp?) on this culture doesn't cause poverty thingie you are trying to promote. Why were the Islamic countries in the late dark ages and middle ages the most advanced and some of the most powerful countries on the planet, but they are not now that way? The culture has not changed much at all compared to the culture of the west, which during those times was not the most powerful. Remember the Mongols, marching through eastern Europe, well they tried the same thing in the middle east but were stoped by Salidin's(sp?) forces. The Mongol invasions of Europe was stopped by Ghengis Khan death, not at the hands of European armies. So now histroy tells us the during that time period Islamic countries are #1 (or close to it) in the world, Europe is NOT #1, time marches on. European culture changes, remember that little civil war you folks had in GB between the Royal supporter and the Parlament supporters? The Reformation movement? The Rennaissance (basicly Europe rediscovering things allready KNOWN in the Islamic world.) Your Culture changed, now lets look at the Islamic countries mmmmmmmmmm.......mmmmmmmmm.......mmmmmmm.........m mmmmmmmm........mmmmmmmmm, NO significant changes in culture. Now let's jump ahead to the 1700-1800's after the changes in culture GB #1 Islamic counties NOT #1. MMMMMMMM....couldn't be poverty causing the Islamic culture, because they started out as the richest, most powerful didn't change their culture but got progressively poorer in comparsion to the rest of the World, their greatest competitors, who changed their culture. Now let's move to the 1900's the USA starts it's climb to the top after it receives it's culture as a direct result of the Parlamentarians winning the English civil war, the Reformation, The Rennaissance and changes in the culture from which the USA sprang forth. The USA starts out at the bottom tries something that had not truely been around since the Greeks and Romans, refines it changes it more (thus an addtional change in culture) and with in 50 years is #1. Well let's look at the Islamic countries, no change in culture, but there is a change in standing(poverty in realtion to the rest of the world) they are going BACKWARDS. How can that happen unless poverty follows culture? In other words culture effect poverty more then poverty effects culture! That is the record HISTORY bares out. Accept the lessons of history or not, but facts is facts. Wishing and wanting don't change facts, they only change the ability to see facts.

Now it might try to be argued that the Islamic world changed their culture, they went from Sultans to Warlords to Military Dictators, but that is not a change in culture that is a change in the names used to call their dictatorial leaders. The culture has remained vurtualy unchanged for nearly 1400 years, the last change they had was the introduction of Islam which started them on their upwards movement.

Even more so for China they went from Emperors to to Party Chairman, just a name change of a dictatoral leader, not a culture change.

[ 07-10-2005, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: John D Harris ]

What's that Wiston C said "Never, never, never give up".

I'm glad to see Mama still has fight in her! Though there has been some Family squablin' amoungst us in the past, you can know, we're proud to have sprung forth from your loins. ;) [img]smile.gif[/img] :D

Azred for a pretty good website discussing violence and Islam check out http://answering-islam.org.uk/

The following link is surprisingly telling. And don't forget that Mohammed is viewed as the perfect man by the religion and he sets the standard for behavior. The section entitled Mohammed's Dead Poet Society is also rather telling.
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Muhammad/Jews/index.html

Also as John D noted above, there has been no Rennaissance in the middle east, no Martin Luther nailing his points against the Catholic Church to the doors of a church, and those who are most militant are those who look to the original works hadiths, and the quran (all of which are weighed closely in worth by Islam).

http://answering-islam.org.uk/

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Muhammad/Jews/index.html

These links deserve a disclaimer- They are written and promoted by evangelical Christians, who admit the whole point of the site is too convert Muslims to Christianity. Using these as educational sources would be like visiting an Aethist site to learn about religion.

I recommend that anyone who wants to learn about Islam seek neutral, encyclopedic sources. Cross-reference!!! Read the Koran for yourself and visit a Mosque. Befriend Muslims and ask them what it all means. Go and fetch a Biography of Muhammed Ali or Malcom X. Or look here, a real Islam site:

http://www.dislam.org/womaninislam/humanrights.html

And yes, read what the enemies of Islam have to say about it, start with the links above. Read those links knowing the motives of the authors and hosts. At leasthave a truthful reference point from which to decide for yourself.

[ 07-10-2005, 11:25 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

As I've given advice before, go check out www.askimam.com as well, you can ask islamic scholars about questions you have with Islam, bear in mind you are more likely to get an HONEST answer if you pose as a muslim when asking.

That doesn't change their usefulness however, they examine historical events cited by islamic sources, puts them into context for the region and compares. As you said, cross reference, but don't discount a source altogether because of a bias. If the links above provoke questions, ask them, you may be surprised by the answer.

[ 07-11-2005, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: Morgeruat ]

Just wanted to post this, it's Ken Livingstones speech, made on thursay.


Livingstone's powerful and emotive speech condemns the terrorist attacks as 'cowardly' and praises Londoners for their calmness in coping with the tragedy.

This was a cowardly attack, which has resulted in injury and loss of life. Our thoughts are with everyone who has been injured, or lost loved ones. I want to thank the emergency services for the way they have responded.

Following the al-Qaeda attacks on September 11 in America we conducted a series of exercises in London in order to be prepared for just such an attack.

One of the exercises undertaken by the government, my office and the emergency and security services was based on the possibility of multiple explosions on the transport system during the Friday rush hour. The plan that came out of that exercise is being executed today, with remarkable efficiency and courage, and I praise those staff who are involved.

I’d like to thank Londoners for the calm way in which they have responded to this cowardly attack and echo the advice of the Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair - do everything possible to assist the police and take the advice of the police about getting home today.



I have no doubt whatsoever that this is a terrorist attack. We did hope in the first few minutes after hearing about the events on the Underground that it might simply be a maintenance tragedy.

That was not the case. I have been able to stay in touch through the very excellent communications that were established for the eventuality that I might be out of the city at the time of a terrorist attack and they have worked with remarkable effectiveness. I will be in continual contact until I am back in London.

I want to say one thing specifically to the world today. This was not a terrorist attack against the mighty and the powerful.

It was not aimed at Presidents or Prime Ministers. It was aimed at ordinary, working-class Londoners, black and white, Muslim and Christian, Hindu and Jew, young and old.

It was an indiscriminate attempt to slaughter, irrespective of any considerations for age, for class, for religion, or whatever.

That isn’t an ideology, it isn’t even a perverted faith - it is just an indiscriminate attempt at mass murder and we know what the objective is.

They seek to divide Londoners. They seek to turn Londoners against each other. I said yesterday to the International Olympic Committee, that the city of London is the greatest in the world, because everybody lives side by side in harmony. Londoners will not be divided by this cowardly attack.



They will stand together in solidarity alongside those who have been injured and those who have been bereaved and that is why I’m proud to be the mayor of that city.

Finally, I wish to speak directly to those who came to London today to take life.

I know that you personally do not fear giving up your own life in order to take others - that is why you are so dangerous. But I know you fear that you may fail in your long-term objective to destroy our free society and I can show you why you will fail.



In the days that follow look at our airports, look at our sea ports and look at our railway stations and, even after your cowardly attack, you will see that people from the rest of Britain, people from around the world will arrive in London to become Londoners and to fulfil their dreams and achieve their potential.

They choose to come to London, as so many have come before because they come to be free, they come to live the life they choose, they come to be able to be themselves.

They flee you because you tell them how they should live. They don’t want that and nothing you do, however many of us you kill, will stop that flight to our city where freedom is strong and where people can live in harmony with one another. Whatever you do, however many you kill, you will fail.


And he wasn't wrong, on sunday 500,000 people lined the mall, to celebratre the 65th aniversary of the end of the 2nd war, a war fought so People like me can live the way we do today, i'll never give that up

Here are some of the other notable speeches made:

The Queen:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...686903,00.html

The PM:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...685208,00.html

Thats the spirit.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...690670,00.html

Where is the Ghandi of Islam?

An excellent article, raising many valid points IMO.

A good debate people, even if it was thread hijacking on an unprecedented scale ;)

Lol, good site!

In a marked contrast to the attitude of most Londoners, the Bush admin has forbidden all American servicemen to visit London or venture inside the M25. The ban lasts indefinitely.

The ban is over, but the New York Times thanks you for your patronage.

4 Suspects...

Three men arrested in North Yorkshire. Positive ID found at different bomb locations connecting them (Intentionally left by them?). One of the men was reported missing by a family member shortly after bombings. All four (one believed dead) men on camera at Kings Cross prior to bombings. 3 controlled explosions in Luton.

Looks and sounds promising thus far but one never knows.

UPDATE: It maybe the homes/lodgings of the 3 or 4 men have been raided as oppossed to arrests. Conflicting stories depending on what channel you watch. It may be they were suicide bombers.

[ 07-12-2005, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Charlie ]

The ban is over, but the New York Times thanks you for your patronage. </font>[/QUOTE]Believe it or not, I read it in the Daily Telegraph this morning ;)

Bombers believed dead, arrests have been made in connection.

To-may-to, to-mah-to, take your pick. ;)

The ban is over, but the New York Times thanks you for your patronage. </font>[/QUOTE]Believe it or not, I read it in the Daily Telegraph this morning ;) </font>[/QUOTE]I saw it in the Times as well, and :shudders: the Mail

It wasn't Bush or his administration, it was a local commander, hopefully this arsehole will get his come-uppance. The USAAF are standing shoulder to shoulder with us - albeit at a distance of 90 miles!!! :D

A small victory for the terrorists though.

UPDATE: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4676577.stm

Arrests made in raids on homes in Leeds and explosive filed car found (left by the bombers).

It is now beleived that at least some were suicide bombers.

Just been listening to the news, and there was someone on talking about the opposition to the anti-terror laws and that the people who said the Government had exagerated the threat had been proved wrong. I don't think this is the case. THe majority said the measures were an over-reaction given the level of threat and despite recent events i still beleive this to be the case. Increased phone and e-mail monitoring, ID cards and detainment orders remain a threat to civil liberties and i don't beleive that the curbing of freedom is worth the extra security, which may after all prove fruitless. What price security if there is no freedom to protect? These measures are a move too far towards a police state and open to rampant abuse by a Government, whomsoever they may be.

[ 07-12-2005, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: Aragorn1 ]

From the Sydney Morning Herald today:

--------------
Teenage British 'suicide bomber' named
July 13, 2005 - 1:12PM


A British teenager and his friend - the 22-year-old son of Yorkshire fish and chip shop owners - have been named as two of four suspected London suicide bombers.

The Times newspaper named two of the dead suspected bombers as Hasib Hussein, 19, and Shehzad Tanweer, 22, Britons of Pakistani origin who lived in Leeds. The two other bombers, whom it did not name, had similar backgrounds, the paper said.

The Daily Mail said that Hussein carried the bomb that exploded on a packed double-decker bus in central London, while Tanweer detonated a device on the London Underground near Edgware Road station, to the west of the city.

The paper named 30-year-old father of one Mohammed Sadique Khan, also from Leeds, as having been responsible for another subway blast near Aldgate station, just east of the city centre.

The Independent newspaper, however, identified another man, Eliaz Fiaz, 30, from Dewsbury, a town near Leeds, as carrying out the Edgware Road attack.

All the British media reports, which cited a variety of intelligence and police sources, said that the bombers travelled to London together by commuter train from Luton, a town just north of the capital, having arrived there in rented cars.

British police said four men from the north of England probably planted the bombs and all may have died in the explosions.

A fifth man, believed to be involved in the attacks, was arrested during the West Yorkshire raids and more arrests are expected.

The police announcement that they had identified the bombers was a stunning development after explosions rocked London, killing at least 52 people and wounding 700 last Thursday.


According to the Times report, which cited a variety of unnamed intelligence and police sources, Hussein and Tanweer and the other bombers travelled to London by commuter train from Luton, a town just north of the capital.

During Tuesday, police sealed off the train station in Luton and carried out controlled explosions on a car with suspected links to the attacks. Explosives were later found in the car, The Times reported.

The men separated at Kings Cross station in the centre of the British capital before launching their attacks in Thursday morning's rush hour. Three of the attacks were virtually simultaneous.

The police breakthrough came when Hussein, who had told his parents he was going to visit friends in London, failed to answer his mobile phone during Thursday, and his family alerted police, the report said.

Investigators picking through the devastated bus found a body wearing clothes similar to those Hussein was last seen in, and noticed that he appeared to have been very close to the blast, prompting suspicions he might have been the bomber.

Told to look out for someone of Hussein's description on security camera footage from Kings Cross, other investigators saw him inside the station with three other young men, all carrying rucksacks.

The suspected bombers' bodies were identified by driving licences and credit cards that survived the blasts, the paper said.

Citing intelligence sources, The Times said that at least two of the men had just returned from Pakistan, but none were on the files of security services.

The paper said Hussein had gone "a bit wild" as a younger teenager, but had became devoutly religious about 18 months ago.

Tanweer, whose family run a fish and chip shop in a suburb of Leeds, was a good student who played cricket for a local team, friends told the newspaper.

"He was a sweet guy who gets on with everybody," Mohamed Ansaar Riaz, 19, a friend of Tanweer said.

"The idea of him going down to London to explode a bomb is unbelievable; it is not in his nature to do something like that.

"He is the kind of guy who would always condemn extremism, like any good Muslim should."
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Peter Clarke of Scotland Yard's Anti Terrorist Branch.

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Peter Clarke of Scotland Yard's Anti Terrorist Branch.
Photo:AP

Police are trying to determine whether the four received help in planning the bombings from people outside Britain.

"Early on, the investigation led us to have concerns about the movement and activities of four men, three of whom came from the West Yorkshire area," said Peter Clarke, the deputy assistant commissioner for anti-terror for London's Metropolitan Police.

"We are trying to establish their movements in the run-up to last week's attacks, and, specifically, to establish if they all died in the explosions."

Police had been largely silent about the investigation, leading to concerns that the bombers had escaped and might be planning more attacks.

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Clarke declined to say who else might have been involved in the attacks.

But terrorism experts not involved in the investigation said it seemed clear that the four men had help.

One expert, Magnus Ranstorp, the director of the Centre for the Study of Terrorism and Police Violence at the University of St Andrews, in Edinburgh, Scotland, noted that police believed the bombs were made of military-grade explosives.

"Military explosives are not that easy to get a hold of [in Britain]," he said.

Police suggested yesterday that their first leads to the bombers' identities came when the family of one of the men reported him missing.

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Clarke declined to provide details about the individual, but British news reports identified him as a British national of Pakistani descent in his early 20s.

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Clarke said rescue workers found documents of the missing man aboard the bus, where survivors had described a young, olive-skinned man acting very nervously and fiddling with a package just prior to the explosion.

Police later determined that the man had travelled by train from Leeds on Thursday morning and was joined by the other three during the trip.

Police didn't say if all the men rode from Leeds, but yesterday afternoon they found a car that they said was connected to the attacks in the parking lot of the rail station at Luton.

Promotional materials describe Leeds as an affluent, lively metropolis of 700,000, half-way between London and Edinburgh. But in recent years, the area has become known for the growth of radical Islam.

The Jerusalem Post reported in 2003 that radical Muslims in Leeds were recruiting university students and harassing Jews.

Others said that the group al-Muhajiroun, whose members in the past have praised the September 11, 2001, terrorists, were recruiting near Leeds.

Still other media reports have talked about the growth of Taliban support in West Yorkshire and how groups of masked young men have burned cars and attacked motorists.

Police, however, were quick to discourage assigning blame to the area's Muslim population.

"The work last Thursday is that of extremists and criminals," Assistant Police Commissioner Andy Hayman said. "So, that being the case, no one should smear or stigmatise any community with these acts."

AP/AFP
Source: www.smh.com.au
---------------

Geez the Pommies work bloody fast when they need to eh. Amazing to have come up with all this in such a short span of time. :eek:

There's a lesson here folks. If it comes to choosing between having your kids be druggies or religion-nuts, go for the lesser of two evils.

Origin of the explosives?

http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/

[ 07-13-2005, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Morgeruat ]

The Financial Times reports that the explosives in the London bombings were almost certainly military TNT from Eastern Europe. It quotes a leading UK British explosives expert who said that the force and nature of the London explosions "suggest that the perpetrators acquired either military or high-quality commercial explosives, possibly from eastern Europe".

The most dramatic events of the day unfolded in the Hyde Park Road area of Burley, says The Independent, where a convoy of police vehicles arrived at around 11.30am and 500 houses were evacuated as police carried out a series of controlled explosions. Police discovered what a senior source described as a bomb factory, with high explosives thought to have been used in the suicide attacks.

The Independent says the four young Asian men carrying rucksacks last Thursday would have attracted few second glances from rush-hour commuters at King's Cross station. "They looked as if they were off on a walking holiday," a senior security source said. The friends, only three of which have yet been identified, had travelled from Leeds that morning and are believed to have picked up the mobile bombs from a house in the Burley district of Leeds. The gang is then thought to have made their way to London in two or three hire cars.

There's a lesson here folks. If it comes to choosing between having your kids be druggies or religion-nuts, go for the lesser of two evils. </font>[/QUOTE]Timber that was a classic! You will never know how much this cracked me up. Thankyou for bringing a laugh into a very sad subject. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Thanks, Well'ard.

No shi'ite. Maybe they can help us sort out this whole "Where's Bin Laden?" thing when they have a spare 10 minutes. We can't find Elvis, we can't find Waldo, it's no wonder we can't find a 6 and a half foot tall bearded terrorist carrying an AK and surrounded by hooded loyalists videotaping his every move. Actually, I think I may have just described half the gansta rappers in trendy LA and NY clubs on a given Saturday night.

Now, onto more serious ways to rattle the cage. Blair and every other Britt Politico is wasting lots of lip-flapping on telling everyone not to take out any anger (Side topic: do Brits get angry, or do they just reserve themselves to being miffed?) on the Islam population in the UK.

Why so much effort to repeat this mantra? Simple -- it takes lots of repetitive chanting to overcome the very reasonable, logical and sensible conclusion that it is the Muslim population INSIDE Brittain that poses the greatest threat to the islands. Doh! Yep, I said it.

Does this qualify as anger?

No shi'ite. Maybe they can help us sort out this whole "Where's Bin Laden?" thing when they have a spare 10 minutes. We can't find Elvis, we can't find Waldo, it's no wonder we can't find a 6 and a half foot tall bearded terrorist carrying an AK and surrounded by hooded loyalists videotaping his every move. Actually, I think I may have just described half the gansta rappers in trendy LA and NY clubs on a given Saturday night.

Now, onto more serious ways to rattle the cage. Blair and every other Britt Politico is wasting lots of lip-flapping on telling everyone not to take out any anger (Side topic: do Brits get angry, or do they just reserve themselves to being miffed?) on the Islam population in the UK.

Why so much effort to repeat this mantra? Simple -- it takes lots of repetitive chanting to overcome the very reasonable, logical and sensible conclusion that it is the Muslim population INSIDE Brittain that poses the greatest threat to the islands. Doh! Yep, I said it. </font>[/QUOTE]On the contrary - it is the Muslim population inside Britain that offers us the best chance of defeating the terrorists.

You really don't understand us at all TL. That's okay though - no reason why you need to.

BTW - glad to see you retain the double T! ;)