No it's not... reinforcement is something that encourages behaviour to continue. The positive and negative refer to whether something is added (positive) or taken away (negative). So to encourage good behaviour we might positively reinforce (give treat), or negatively reinforce (take away a chore they don't like to do). Spanking is punishment - it aims to discourage bad behaviour [img]smile.gif[/img]

I have to disagree with this statement - I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but your comment implies that kids should be smacked because otherwise they won't learn right and wrong and smacking is the only way to enforce rules. There are many other successful ways to teach good behaviour and discourage bad behaviour, that have been shown to work through extensive research. I'm not saying parents shouldn't smack, or it is not a good tool to teach right and wrong, but it is certainly not the only way.

My opinion, based on research and the logic of behaviour theory, is that any discipline technique will be effective if it is meaningful to the child, and applied consistently. Children must be able to predict the consequences of their behaviour, both good and bad, and have incentive to behave well, and the reason children don't learn right from wrong is not because they are or are not spanked, but because their parenting is inconsistent and unpredictable, or the rewards they get for behaving well are not worth it. I think it's good that spanking is losing favour, because I don't agree that it is necessary (although not for most of the reasons in the article), but I think it's a problem that now parents think they can't spank but aren't replacing spanking with effective consistent behaviour management strategies. There's a lot of 'Don't spank!', but not a lot of 'Do....' instead.

Good post Aelia! Consistent and meaningful application is much more important than the method.It's also the hardest thing for parents to do as it requires constant effort

{Double post deleted) Sorry - Attalus

[ 06-28-2004, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: Attalus ]

Reason #11: Your children will select your nursing home.

LOL! Right on the money! I'm hoping to have my full health and wits until the age of eighty-something, when I drop dead instantly of a heart attack. (Doesn't everybody?)

I think spanking isn't needed, however, threatening to do that is good enough methinks. Certainly a twice-size angry-looking parent with a raised arm can intimidate some punk kid into submission :D

Although I know why you would want to hit a child (mostly influenced from you brother...lol :D ).... but I disagree with hitting children. Yes it does tell them that they did something wrong and they shouldn't do it again, but sometimes hitting a child can get out of hand, sometimes even dangerous..... believe me I know, from own personal experience :(
I'm not typing this to change anyones mind, just stating something that I see as wrong and traumatising for a child, just like everyone else is stating here.

But yes I have nothing against it, as long as the parent does not get out of hand and eventually hurts the child really bad.
I would never hit a child myself though.
Anyways everyone has a different opinion and I am not objective to that.

Punishment is subject to the law of diminishing returns, the more it's used the less effective it becomes. Reinforcing methods don't seem to have that drawback, and thus they are far more effective over the long haul... however, I believe punishment when used sparingly is very effective.

I can't agree with this. That would work until the kid decides to test the limits - how often do kids decide to see how far they can push their parents? What's the parent going to do when the kid keeps doing whatever it is they're doing after being threatened with a smack, if they're not actually prepared to follow through? Empty threats are just as ineffective as no punishment at all, because the kids very quickly learn their parents won't put their money where their mouth is, therefore they can do whatever they want.

No, they definitely are subject to the law of diminishing returns. The most effective reward schedule starts off very frequent and predictable, but becomes much less frequent and more unpredictable over time, otherwise it loses its effectiveness just like punishment does. But I agree with you that reinforcement is more effective than just punishment - if there's no incentive (apart from not being punished) to behave well, then why would you? That just encourages kids to hide their misbehaviour rather than actually do the right thing, plus if they're never rewarded for doing the right thing, it can be confusing to know exactly what that is sometimes!

for more reasons than have been discussed here, i must say that i think the original article is horribly wrong.

yes, i was spanked as a child. yes, i love my parents. yes, i respect them for raising me properly. no, i dont suffer psychological damage from spanking, and no, i don't innexplicably fear those i deem to have more power or influence than i do.

Children misbehave because of bad parenting.

ACTUALLY, children misbehave because it is in the nature of the child to test limits and establish societal norms through experimentation and developement with guidance from the parent. too many parents rely ONLY on positive reenforcement, a technique which is damaging to EVERYONE in its grasp, and severely damaging to a small but significant portion. bad parenting isnt what causes children to misbehave, its what fails to enforce punishment and leaves a child with an entitlement sense that is more damaging to our society.

when i have children, i will not spare them spankings. i won't even say that physical discipline will cease to be a threat as they get older, although i wouldnt subject them to it. i love my dad, at the same time, i know that if i deserved it he would probably put me through the wall. its not psychologically damaging, i have learned when to keep my mouth shut, which is a good cry better than most adults my age.

i plan to raise my children how i deem fit, and God help the man who tries to interfere with my children's well being...