Ironworks Gaming Forum - PLEASE STOP!!!

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- General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=28)

- - PLEASE STOP!!! (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70946)

Quote:

Originally posted by Sazerac:

Nachtrafe, you claim that one sometimes needs to "argue the person, not the point." I disagree strongly with this. Maybe that's true in political debates, but this is not a debate forum. We have always prided ourselves in being able to respect other's opinions and being kind to one another, regardless of how we felt about the other person's beliefs or opinions, and have always worked to keep things from getting too personal. I certainly don't hold with all the beliefs said on this board. I will also, as Memnoch has said, fight to the end to allow you to express those beliefs, regardless of how I feel about it...as long as there is mutual courtesy and respect shown to the participants.

Saz...I agree with you, this is not debate in the traditional sense. We're not talking about an abstract topic, researching it, taking a pro or con stance. What we're debating is opinion, something that is, by defenition, intensely personal. And how can you debate something so very personal without debating the person. You can still debate the idea as well, but to effectively debate someones opinion you have to get personal to at least an extent. Unfortunately, that extent seems to be getting further and further. And I am one of the guilty lately. I wont make excuses, but I will try to lighten up and examine what I'm saying before i say it.

And yes, darn it, I do have to be right. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif Isn't that sort of human nature?? http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

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"In Memorium of those who are gone, and all those that bought our freedom with their hearts blood!"

"May the Colors of Liberty never run"
http://nachtrafe.7h.com/images/pledge.jpg http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif

Quote:

Originally posted by Nachtrafe:
Saz...I agree with you, this is not debate in the traditional sense. We're not talking about an abstract topic, researching it, taking a pro or con stance. What we're debating is opinion, something that is, by defenition, intensely personal. And how can you debate something so very personal without debating the person. You can still debate the idea as well, but to effectively debate someones opinion you have to get personal to at least an extent. Unfortunately, that extent seems to be getting further and further. And I am one of the guilty lately. I wont make excuses, but I will try to lighten up and examine what I'm saying before i say it.

I do understand your point, now, Nachtrafe, and thanks for clarifying that. I've never formally studied debate, so I missed that completely. Of course, one would have to go at it from a psychological perspective.

It's not you, Nachtrafe, as it is a tone and a mood that has settled over IW...it's affecting everyone. I'm afraid it's far from over, either, from what I've seen here today. But lightening up and keeping a sense of humor is always a good point, even in debate.

Quote:

And yes, darn it, I do have to be right. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif Isn't that sort of human nature?? http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

Absolutely it is. Just remember to respect other's rights to be "right" as well. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif That's all!

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http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/saz.gif

Quote:

Originally posted by Sazerac:

Even if one is in the right, does it hurt to yield sometimes? Or stop, look, and listen? Maybe, just maybe (oh wonder of wonders) one might actually LEARN something?

Or is that too much to ask?

Stepping away to avoid contributing to the start of a flamewar is not yielding defeat by the way. It's not too much to ask, as it should be the way most of us deal with others face-to-face...isn't it? Otherwise nobody would talk to us. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

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http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memnoch/memnochsig.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/hero2.gif

Quote:

Originally posted by Memnoch:
Stepping away to avoid contributing to the start of a flamewar is not yielding defeat by the way. It's not too much to ask, as it should be the way most of us deal with others face-to-face...isn't it? Otherwise nobody would talk to us. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

Exactly! I know it is! We sometimes forget that in print/electronic media. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

Cloudy

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http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/bestow2.gif
http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/cloudy.gif
Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
CloudDragon of the OHF
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."

Quote:

LOL...sadly...I'm one of those, 'In your face' types in person too. Working on that too. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif BTW...Hi Genie guy!!! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif Hey...did you see my response to you on Liliara's How Ya Like Us Now thread(part one) I tried to clear up a miscummunication. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

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"In Memorium of those who are gone, and all those that bought our freedom with their hearts blood!"

"May the Colors of Liberty never run"
http://nachtrafe.7h.com/images/pledge.jpg http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif

Quote:

Originally posted by Sazerac:

I do understand your point, now, Nachtrafe, and thanks for clarifying that. I've never formally studied debate, so I missed that completely. Of course, one would have to go at it from a psychological perspective.

It's not you, Nachtrafe, as it is a tone and a mood that has settled over IW...it's affecting everyone. I'm afraid it's far from over, either, from what I've seen here today. But lightening up and keeping a sense of humor is always a good point, even in debate.

Absolutely it is. Just remember to respect other's rights to be "right" as well. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif That's all!

LOL...working hard on that sense of humor lately. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

I studied debate all through high school in Debate, and FFA. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif I kind of OD'd. And I love it! I forget sometimes that most people didn't. And I sometimes come out over the top. Like I said...I am trying. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

OT: Your sig ROCKS! And the one you did for Cloudy is equally awesome!!! How do you get the color effect? What proggy do you use? I've been playing with sige myself, and I would love to be able to do that.

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"In Memorium of those who are gone, and all those that bought our freedom with their hearts blood!"

"May the Colors of Liberty never run"
http://nachtrafe.7h.com/images/pledge.jpg http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif

I agree fully with Azure...

I think that we have a lot of shit that is going on in our lives, REAL lives as of the moment, and this war thing is already stressing as it is... since its everywhere, sometimes people just want to go to some place relaxing like this... BEFORE.

Now, can we make this BEFORE, AGAIN? http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

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http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/heart.gif

Mithril Cavalier of ALSB
You almost had me? You never had me! You never had your car! It is not about winning by a mile or by an inch, its about winning.