Ironworks Gaming Forum - Pacifist and Idealist synonymous? A word about war from a war vet..

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- - Pacifist and Idealist synonymous? A word about war from a war vet.. (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70578)

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Kenyth:
Naah, the word discrimination has just been misunderstood. A discriminating buyer is one who chooses with knowledge. It's the factors used in discriminating that count. Do I discriminate against people that are known to hate us? Yes. Do I discriminate against someone for being Muslim? No. Like I said before, would you trade your child for the lives of three others? Would you be able to? In the equation that all lives are equal in your eyes, the three lives are worth more than the one. We all discriminate in one fashion or another, For one reason or another, in everything we do. It's not a racial thing. It's knowing who your enemy is and not giving them a second chance to kill us.

My dictionary defines discrimination as follows: 1. Unfavourable treatment based on prejudice, especially regarding race, colour or sex.

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Ascended Mistress of Illumination

Quote:

Originally posted by Rikard:

And I am the enemy when i want to know what drives these people to do such stuff instead of forcing them to be exactly like me?

No. Not at all. I don't say force them to be exactly like us. As a matter of fact that area of the world is where the worst prejudice lives! They kill each other every day because of the religion they beleive in. What I say is when you are attacked, you respond. Give no quarter. Show as much mercy as those who attacked. The pacifist route leads to nothing but more pain, for the pacifist. The other route also leads to nothing but more pain, for the aggressor. See the difference?

Quote:

Sir K. may I suggest you don't make your arguments by hypothesising extreme situations that have not happened, and are not likely to happen. (The ludicrous child trading example, for example...) Let's stick to the facts. How you choose to interprete those is up to you.

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Ascended Mistress of Illumination

Quote:

Originally posted by Gabriel:
Okay I sick of seeing people posting that the Taliban won't give Bin Laden, they offered to surrender him like the middle of last week but only if they can see the evidence what Bush has linking it to him but guess what Bush said, that right NO!.
I also sick of people saying that everyone in the Afgainstan is the Taliban, aid workers and reporters and the Nothern Anilace(?) all say that the majority of the normal people do not, I repeat done not hate westers, even Americans. The soldiers of the Taliban are just planning on defending their country from attack as you just would for yours.

Hear! Hear! I hear and I agree!

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Kenyth:
Let me speak a little irritation I'm having as I read posts on the current situation. I'm starting to associate pacifist with idealist lately. I keep hearing that we'll be killing babies and innocent citizens. We should just be able to seive out the militants easy as pie and leave the locals untouched. Let me tell you a little cold hard fact. The militants hide in a bunch of innocent citizens on purpose. It makes for indecisive and cautious attacks on them and good propaganda when "innocent" citizens die. A good number of those innocents will become militants in the time it takes to hand them a gun and an attitude. A good number of those innocents will have no problem and probably feel honored to hide their folk hero (Bin Laden) and his troops. Hell, they're buying "Bin Laden" T-shirts faster than they are being made and probably had a big party when the trade center went down! War is war. You can't spend years trying to sort out the bad guys if the population doesn't support you. The WWII bombing of Japan was horrific. It was severe overkill and not our finest hour. The sad fact of the matter is that it was effective. The enemy was severely crippled in every way possible and quickly surrendered. That's the way war is. If you don't hurt the enemy, the'll hurt you, and they won't quit just because you show mercy! They'll take the opportunity to strike again! It's a shame non-combatants have to die in combat. Think of it this way, we've already given in the non-combatant department, we've lost thousands of non-combatants. How high do you want the number to go before taking effective action? These are OUR people dying!!! You want THEM to be safe at the cost of US?! If they want to protect their people, they'll do what they can to avoid this and stop supporting and harboring the terrorist network. They'll quit playing dumb and sniping us when we're not looking. They're counting on our moral code to protect them and keep them going. Hardly an honorable thing. I don't think they'll ever give up Bin Laden, even if they had him right now. Face it, they LIKE him. They BELIEVE in him! They WANT him! They LIKE what he does! They DANCE on the graves of our dead! SO BE IT! It's time to take it to THEM now, instead of waiting for the next bullet in the dark!!!!!

This probably is news to you, but the nationalistic jingoism you are spewing has nothing to do with what it really means to uphold the principles of freedom that america was founded on.

In all your ranting above, did you ever stop to try to think about who "THEY" are that you are so eager to kill in order to get at Bin Laden?

Ranting such you have posted makes me sick. The mentality is no different from that of a terrorist. The real enemy to innocent people the world over is just as much terrorism in the form you are advocating as it is Bin Laden's version. As far as I am concerned, YOU are the one that belongs in his camp.

You say in another post that you served in the Gulf War and that worked fine. Yes, it worked damned fine if your criterion is causing hundreds of thousands of causalties to combatants and innocents alike. Oh wait, I forgot, Iraqi lives obviously don't mean squat.

Hey, they had no qualm causing casualties to take over Kuwait, did they?

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Kenyth:
No. Not at all. I don't say force them to be exactly like us. As a matter of fact that area of the world is where the worst prejudice lives! They kill each other every day because of the religion they beleive in. What I say is when you are attacked, you respond. Give no quarter. Show as much mercy as those who attacked. The pacifist route leads to nothing but more pain, for the pacifist. The other route also leads to nothing but more pain, for the aggressor. See the difference?

They don't kill eachother
The Palastines and the Israeli do that
there's a distance between those countries

also i know someone who is lightly flamible
he got hit once, he hit back
the other came back with friends
he got severely hurt

I got hit once too
I did nothin
i have never been hit again

Violence leads to more violence leads to more violence leads to more violence leads to more violence lead to an all destroying Nucleor War

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Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Kenyth:
Hey, they had no qualm causing casualties to take over Kuwait, did they?

and you acted exactly like they did didn;t you?

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Quote:

Originally posted by Rikard:

They don't kill eachother
The Palastines and the Israeli do that
there's a distance between those countries

also i know someone who is lightly flamible
he got hit once, he hit back
the other came back with friends
he got severely hurt

I got hit once too
I did nothin
i have never been hit again

Violence leads to more violence leads to more violence leads to more violence leads to more violence lead to an all destroying Nucleor War

BTW your Welcome over here in America in my book Rikard. Lord knows I'm not gonna shut up or leave because of a few narrow-minded people, who think their way is the only correct way.

Great minds think alike, unfortunatly the same applies for not so great minds http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif
Hey that might be my new sig. Hmmmm.

Quote:

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown:
This probably is news to you, but the nationalistic jingoism you are spewing has nothing to do with what it really means to uphold the principles of freedom that america was founded on.

In all your ranting above, did you ever stop to try to think about who "THEY" are that you are so eager to kill in order to get at Bin Laden?

Ranting such you have posted makes me sick. The mentality is no different from that of a terrorist. The real enemy to innocent people the world over is just as much terrorism in the form you are advocating as it is Bin Laden's version. As far as I am concerned, YOU are the one that belongs in his camp.

You say in another post that you served in the Gulf War and that worked fine. Yes, it worked damned fine if your criterion is causing hundreds of thousands of causalties to combatants and innocents alike. Oh wait, I forgot, Iraqi lives obviously don't mean squat.

Terrorism huh? Let me see. How many planes have we crashed into other countries population centers? Hmmmmmmmmm, maybe my memory is failing me. Perhaps if it was your family member, your child, your spouse working in the trade center that day, you would think a bit differently. What is your big idea to eliminate the terrorist network? Ask them nicely to quit?