Ham fisted! check out the U.S.S.R.'s response to Hungury in the 50's.

I am hoping I have not come off as totally ingorant here LOL I am well aware that spying has gone on for years and will continue as long as we all have the need to know what our (and those we protect's) potential enemies are doing.
http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...es/biggrin.gif

As far as the reasons behind the tragic loss of a chinese man's life in the process, I agree that "W" should not have gotten "snippy" http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...miles/wink.gif from the start and that steps should be taken to resolve the matter in a peaceful way with the Chinese Gov't. They are no small power and should not be treated as such by any country that wants or demands their respect.

The same goes for the Chinese in losing a volatile member of their military...perhaps apologies should be made on both sides. Does it matter who says sorry first as long as they "kiss and make up"?

'nuff said for me, I am off to play with graphics for a few.

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Moni

I was speaking about events in history and the unfounded attitudes of citizens from other counties. If you don't like it vote for someone differant in the next fascist election, until then deal with it. 1992 my side lost the election, and personaly I wouldn't have pissed on Bill Clinton if he was on fire (it would have been a waste of a good piss), but he was the constitutionaly elected presdent of our nation if it ever would have come to war I'd have gone
because our elected leaders ask. Thats part of the price of being an U.S. citzen.

In my zeal to make a point I believe I made the wrong impression it would not be the pres. making the decision for war it would be congress and that my american bro. & sis. is truely a scarey thought.But as we say in dixie they may be crazy , but they're our crazies.


[This message has been edited by John D Harris (edited 04-08-2001).]

Yeah, Yeah, bglad to see someone else here who thinks clearly!!
.

Nice to meet you.

Ditto, couldn't have pu it better myself!!

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Feel My Power

Arcane Adept of the OHF, "So let it be written, So let it be done"

Nice to meet you to Grey Mage.
I think Charlie Daniels said it best in his song The Eagles been flying low
"we may have done some fight'n amoungest our selves
but don't you outsiders go stick'n your noses in
just try and lay your hands on a Pittsburg steeler fan"
This is comming from a die hard Dallas cowboys fan we hated Pittsburg cause we whipped our rear-ends in the BIG ONE too many times.

"Old age and trechery beats youth and skill every time"

"if he asks you to go to war, you would have gone. Such is the price of being US citizen"

just ppl like you are making crises around the world. in a totally different apparences but exactly same manner. go to war without thinking if it is worth or right.

I dont know how to translate, but do watch the news around mid-west, east asia. these are the places where most troubles occures in the present day. and the ones causing troubles are the one with national pride and such. dont give me this dude. I dont believe a big nation has ANY "right" or whatsoever to stick his nose into other's business.

spy, fine, for your own safty. but if you get caught, you got say something, you dont just walk away. samething goes to anyone.

also, about "without us, your whole existence would be different" is that what you believe? you believe US actually is a peacemaker walking around the world NOT putting money in its own pocket AND NOT gaining allies by making deals? and then, at same time, using his influence to make peace just simply because peace is the best case for its own cover and peace is the only choice to maintain a measure of control? I admit any country this size such as US will do that, but that doesn't make it right. what happened, happened. however please dont think everyone lives by your grace and such.

Let us not forget the spy case involving Wen Ho Lee, a chinese-american accused of spying at Los Alamos National Laboratory. He was held in custody for 9 months while the US Justice Department investigated the allegations that he spied for the Chinese. He was finally released after the Justice Department could not come up with any 'hard' evidence that Mr. Lee did in fact pass nuclear secrets.

Is it therefore OK for the US to hold 'captive' one of it's own citizens on allegations of spying, but not OK for the Chinese to do the same? The Chinese I believe are acting rational in holding the American spy plane personel in 'custody' until an investigation into the event is done. Who caused the accident is inconsequential. We were caught spying and unfortunately have to pay the consequences of that. It is a risk that is taken!

And to the statements that the US is the worldwide 'police' force that everyone comes running to in times of need. My question is where was the US when the genocide in Rwanda was happening? Did an American soldier ever step foot in Rwanda? NO! The US only takes an interest in foriegn affairs when they have something to gain. So do not sit here and tell us that the US is the almighty protector of the world, when thousands are dying in places like Rwanda.

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It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear ignorant,
than open it and remove all doubt!

I totally agree.

i know at least two places had huge slaughters in the first half of year 2001. one is an island nation around Indonisya. 1000 ppl reported death. where was US? he doesn't say a thing. where was US when Israel open fire to Palestin people? what did he do? he stands up and back up Israel.

US cannot be blamed for all the killing going on out there. but if he claims he is the protector of the world, then he can go **** himself, because the truth is he is not.

I have been reading all of this and I really didn't want to get involved but my husband wanted to say a few things. So I am typing what he is saying.
"In regard to negative comments about the U.S.A., alot of people all over the world owe everything they have to us."

well, give your husband my regards

and tell him start thinking from now on