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-   General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=28)
-   -   Detained crossing the border (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84348)

MagiK 02-20-2003 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Masklinn:
</font><blockquote>Quote:</font><hr />The Happier NOTE is that we are FREE to choose to come and go
Animal was not for at least 36 hours of his life, and for no reason.

And when I say that there must be a better way, I mean they could do their job in a better way.
</font>[/QUOTE]<font color="#ffccff">It is easy to nitpick when peoples lives don't depend on how well you do your job. </font>

MagiK 02-20-2003 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Hierophant:
</font><blockquote>Quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MagiK:
<font color="#ffccff">You are right, there must be a better way, but untill someone can invent it, there isn't.</font>

It was invented thousands of years ago, it's called showing a little goddam respect to your fellow man!</font>[/QUOTE]<font color="#ffccff">I thought you were an atheist?

Again, you heard just one side of the story, perspective can change things radicly. </font>

MagiK 02-20-2003 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donut:
</font><blockquote>Quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MagiK:
<font color="#ffccff">On a happier note, if you really dislike US customs people that much....You are quite free not to visit [img]smile.gif[/img]

</font>

Well I hope people treat this comment with the contempt it deserves. Once you get past the ignorant prats at immigration America is one of the friendliest countries you could wish to visit. They have a few arseholes but what country doesn't, the vast majority of the people are very helpful and obliging.</font>[/QUOTE]<font color="#ffccff">Treat it as you wish, the underlaying fact is still true.
As I said before, and before and before, you heard one side of a story.
It is very easy to nitpick and bitch and gripe and moan when your decisions are not the ones that have to gaurentee the safety of hundreds. </font>

Larry_OHF 02-20-2003 09:51 AM

<font color=skyblue>A few people are getting a little dirty with their language.

Please clean up your mouths and proceed with the discussion.</font>

MagiK 02-20-2003 09:52 AM

<font color="#ffccff">People bitch and moan over how they are treated by officials everywhere, never having once considered the shite that those service people have to put up with, people yelling at them, calling them names and in general giving them hell just because they are trying to do their job. Most people have never had to do that kind of job or had people die because they let the wrong guy through. Just in case you have all forgotten, Boston is where TWO of the flights on 9/11 originated, the two that took out the world trade centers. Think about that for a bit. </font>

Melusine 02-20-2003 09:54 AM

The lives of hundreds of people depend on the custom people being impolite and rude??
No one is saying they shouldn't check up on people and make sure there are no lunatics with bombs getting on planes. What we're saying is that they could at least be polite about it, and try to put someone at ease. After all, what happened to INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY?? As long as they are just checking and have no actual proof someone is a terrorist, they have no right to treat you like one. Harleyquinn, I wasn't going to post this here, but you have disabled the option of receiving Private Messages, so... I am sorry about what happened to you. I have a similar experience. And I agree that what happened to Animal would be even harder for me to deal with. It would be like a nightmare.

So don't come up with crap about safety. Safety isn't endangered by being nice to someone, putting them at ease, and apologising for all the misery they were put through.

Donut 02-20-2003 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MagiK:
<font color="#ffccff">Treat it as you wish, the underlaying fact is still true.
As I said before, and before and before, you heard one side of a story.
It is very easy to nitpick and bitch and gripe and moan when your decisions are not the ones that have to gaurentee the safety of hundreds. </font>

But I am talking about my own experience of 12 visits to the US on holidays, and this was pre 9/11.

Attalus 02-20-2003 10:00 AM

Post 9/11, I read a column by an American of Arab descent who said, in effect, go ahead and profile me, search me top to toe, as long as the airplane I am riding in doesn't blow up or is crashed into buildings killing me and other innocent people. That said, there is no excuse for rudeness.

Melusine 02-20-2003 10:01 AM

Incidentally, I'm actually agreeing with MagiK on one thing: I don't see where your expensive clothes come into this, Animal... Someone with bad intentions could wear expensive clothes just as easily as you do.
But I do agree that the overall appearance and impression you must have made was at least such that they could have treated you respectfully and apologised afterwards.
Again, I'm ALL FOR safety. I'm all for making sure dangerous idiots don't board planes. I mean... DOH, who isn't?? What I'm against though, is excusing every type of behaviour in its name. How the custom people treat someone, I reiterate, has no effect on how well their job of maintaining safety is done.

Nachtrafe 02-20-2003 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Melusine:
The lives of hundreds of people depend on the custom people being impolite and rude??
No one is saying they shouldn't check up on people and make sure there are no lunatics with bombs getting on planes. What we're saying is that they could at least be polite about it, and try to put someone at ease. After all, what happened to INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY?? As long as they are just checking and have no actual proof someone is a terrorist, they have no right to treat you like one. Harleyquinn, I wasn't going to post this here, but you have disabled the option of receiving Private Messages, so... I am sorry about what happened to you. I have a similar experience. And I agree that what happened to Animal would be even harder for me to deal with. It would be like a nightmare.

So don't come up with crap about safety. Safety isn't endangered by being nice to someone, putting them at ease, and apologising for all the misery they were put through.

Hmmmm...Hiya Magik. Seems you're getting roundly pounded on for being the one with the unpopular opinion...again. LOL...Well, you're about to have company. :D

Mel...One key thing that you, and several others, seem to be forgetting. That whole 'Innocent until proven guilty' thing...in America, it only applies to AMERICAN CITIZENS! Citizens and nationals of other countries have NO RIGHTS under the US Constitution. So yeah, it's guilty until proven innocent. And, in case anyone had forgotten, the US is on Level Orange terror alert, so security is heightened at ALL international checkpoints. The US customs has EVERY right to treat any and all incoming individuals like terrorists until and unless it is *PROVEN* that they are not. All it takes is to let *ONE* person slip through, and there goes another airliner, or a government facility, or a public school, or or or and and and. Get my point?

Now, lest I get flamed out of existance, I do have to say that I emphatize with Animal. It sucks that he was treated so rudely. BUT...as Magik said, there are two sides to every story. If the custom's officers were here I'm sure that there side of the story would reflect well on them too. These guys are underpaid, overstressed, and are trying desperately to A)Prevent crackpots/terrorists/scumbags from entering the US, B)Trying to do so in a manner which 'wont offend anyone', cuz godforbid we offend a freakin terrorist by actually catching him and stopping him from doing what he intends to do and C)Deal with an angry, worried, and generally pissy public who keeps constantly screaming for greater security while at the same time screaming bloody murder when it happens to personally inconvienence them.

Now, do I think that the custome people went a wee bit overboard...sure I do. But, and, forgive me Animal, but this really is my opinion, I would rather have a few people pissed off than a lot of people dead.


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