Point taken, Donut, and I sympathise, but the only thing I can add is that you seem to want to exclude "surgery", or military action, from the armamentarium entirely. It is shown that successful military action curbs the "Arab Street" and frightens some of the less committed members. And, Davros, apartheid was about keeping the native majority from a full share in National life, whereas the Berlin Wall was to keep the East Germans in, not out. A better metaphor would be the Japanese Empire during the Shogunate, with its fanatical exclusion of foreigners. That was, I believe, the first time the human race has ever abandoned a war-making technology. (gunpowder)

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<font color="#ff00cc">I thought your origianl and subsequent posts were a fun and informative use of metaphor [img]smile.gif[/img] or similee or whatever. I recognized what you were getting at from the outset. I also realized that you had some good points, but we see things in a very different fundamental way. So we disagree on the course to take, but I think we both know that any answer is not going to be simple.

People living in London, Paris, NY and DC all have good reason to be concerned.

I am still trying to figure out why, banning all arab peoples from the western world untill they can curb their more radical factions is such a horrible idea.</font></font>[/QUOTE]Ban all Arabs? why ? how many arabs live in Kenya or Bali ? In London they have arrested Algierians, the shoe bomber Richard Reed, was From Brixton, London ..Should we ban all people from brixton from the western world,I consider myself a man of average intellegence,don't go in much for politics etc but even I can see, the only way to stop more outrages is to find the root of this Disease,not bombing the life out of countries that can't defend
themselves, as Donut said killing one cell of cancer will only create more,if we are part of the root then maybe we should start with ourselves.

No, I never said it should be excluded. There are times when it has to be done. But the whole thing hinges on the word ''successful'. A full blown war can be successful in terms of a military victory but we will [i]never[/] win the war on terrorism by military action alone. Just as the British had to speak to the IRA we will have to address the concerns of the muslims. As unpalatable as that is to us at the moment.

Can anyone give me an example of a war on terrorists that was won militarily.

I can think of several examples of terrorism against Britain:

Mau Mau in Kenya
Jews in Palestine
IRA in Ireland
Communists in Malaysia
EOKA in Cyprus
Revolutionaries in the New World

The might of the British Army could not end these conflicts.

Then there's the basque seperatists, The Tamil Tigers - not forgetting the likes of terrorists such as Nelson Mandela and David Ben-Gurion.

MagiK - I'm guessing that your suggestion was a joke, please say it was a joke!

Look at this. Now imagine that you are a young palestinian living in poverty. What are you feeling? - is it fear or is it loathing? Will you cower or will you fight back?

<font color=yellow> Isolation and segregation - are you suggesting we repeat apartheid and the Berlin Wall? You might argue from some perspectives they were successes, but on the whole, history doesn't seem to think so. </font></font>[/QUOTE]<font color="#ff00cc">Depends on what you are trying to achieve. First off, since we aren't under threat of swedish suicide bombers, but we are under threat of arab suicide bombers, AND the fact that the arab countires are doing next tonothing to curb the problem from their end...the simple solution is....don't let them in. I dont know any country that HAS to let people in if it doesnt want to. NewZealand for example, won't let anyone immigrate, UNLESS there is a specific benefit to the country by that individual. Im just saying use that to keep your own populations safe. (Berlin wall was not about keeping people out...it was about keeping people in.) All the arab nations need to do to lift the santions would be to control their own radical sects.

Yes I realize it is a very simplistic way to deal with the issue, but Im fairly sure that the USA at least would be able to actually do this. So aside from waving apartheid and berlin wall around (which are not even close to being the same thing) whats so wrong about keeping out dangerous groups of people, especially when they are easily identifiable? </font>

Ban all Arabs? why ? how many arabs live in Kenya or Bali ? In London they have arrested Algierians, the shoe bomber Richard Reed, was From Brixton, London ..Should we ban all people from brixton from the western world,I consider myself a man of average intellegence,don't go in much for politics etc but even I can see, the only way to stop more outrages is to find the root of this Disease,not bombing the life out of countries that can't defend
themselves, as Donut said killing one cell of cancer will only create more,if we are part of the root then maybe we should start with ourselves.[/QB][/QUOTE]

<font color="#ff00cc">Well mainly because banning all Swedish people would be of little use, since the Swedish peoples have not been known to be radical terror bombers of late. Sooooooooooooooo since 99% of our terror problems right this second are from arab nations. I say kick them out of the club of the civilized owrld untill they can behave themselves. Make the Arab nations control their own radical elements. Im still waiting for one solid reason...a really direct and applicable reason why that is not a good idea. Probably not practical I know, but I believe it would solve the problem....for a while at least. Untill all the middle east countries reverted to nomadic desert tribes whith no modern technology. (no it wouldnt happen but Im being ridiculous so why not go all the way ;) )</font>

<font color="#ff00cc">Yes there has to be more than JUST a military action taken to resolve this, no argument there :D But I do ask the question, what happens IF the arab extremist requirements for peace include the death of all Jews, and the destruction of all capitalistic states (all of western europe and USA) and also requires all infidels (non-muslims) to be cleansed from the earth? How do you appease such extreme conditions?

As for my suggestion :D take a look at my last line of reply to Lanesera ;) </font>

Ban all Arabs? why ? how many arabs live in Kenya or Bali ? In London they have arrested Algierians, the shoe bomber Richard Reed, was From Brixton, London ..Should we ban all people from brixton from the western world,I consider myself a man of average intellegence,don't go in much for politics etc but even I can see, the only way to stop more outrages is to find the root of this Disease,not bombing the life out of countries that can't defend
themselves, as Donut said killing one cell of cancer will only create more,if we are part of the root then maybe we should start with ourselves.</font>[/QUOTE]<font color="#ff00cc">Well mainly because banning all Swedish people would be of little use, since the Swedish peoples have not been known to be radical terror bombers of late. Sooooooooooooooo since 99% of our terror problems right this second are from arab nations. I say kick them out of the club of the civilized owrld untill they can behave themselves. Make the Arab nations control their own radical elements. Im still waiting for one solid reason...a really direct and applicable reason why that is not a good idea. Probably not practical I know, but I believe it would solve the problem....for a while at least. Untill all the middle east countries reverted to nomadic desert tribes whith no modern technology. (no it wouldnt happen but Im being ridiculous so why not go all the way ;) )</font>[/QB][/QUOTE

Did you read my post Magik,if so the point I was trying to make is that terrorists have no state, and alot of the people associated with Al queda are not arabs,personally pre 9/11 my terrorist problems were caused mainly by the IRA,should we throw all the Irish out of the USA & the UK ?

And then there are the really alternative 'cures'. Part of today's news in DK was the story about a doctor (M.D.) who treats his pacients wiyh (among other things) misteltoe and vegetarian diet. [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img] The more 'conservative' doctors naturally disapproved of this 'treatment' - and I also think that he preys of peoples fear of cancer/death.

[ 12-03-2002, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Ar-Cunin ]

<font color="#ff00cc">
Yes I did read your post. And yes I don't doubt that pre 9/11 you may have been aware of the IRA more than arab terror, however the IRA really has not been nearly so active world wide as the Muslim extremists. But that aside, I think you missed the umm ludicrouness of my post, I did admit to it in the last line to you [img]smile.gif[/img] . In reality, I think that the muslim extremists do pose the largest threat to the western way of life that has ever existed. THey do not value human life, they are ruthless and they (well some of them) do not care if they sacrifice their life in the effort to eradicate ALL infidels. The IRA at least has a small, direct objective that does not include the eradication of all UK citizens. Anyway, sorry if I made you think that I wasn't paying attention. </font>

<font color="#ff00cc">
I think perhaps we might try feeding massive doses of exlax and other purgatives to all arabs :D </font>