I voted theist, although my faith does not lie with the Christian deity. Rather, if I am to be categorized, I should have to say I am Wiccan. Most of my beliefs stem from a Pagan viewpoint.

As can the presence of the Holy Spirit. ;) :D

The point I was making was that ABSTRACT things are not able to be experienced with the five senses. If you only believe in things you can sense, you are limiting your experience of life big time.

Abstract concepts (philisophical ideas, morals, ideologies fictional creating etc) have given much enhancement to life for many throughout history.

Of course, God is more than an abstract concept, as one can indeed feel his presense or the effect of his actions (healing, the planet earth, renewed confidence etc), but I was focussing on your perception of limiting awareness to things concrete, rather than belief in God or not.

Abstract thought is part of what makes us human.</font>[/QUOTE]i'm sorry Yorick, i guess i'm a non believer, but like Aviendha said, if i got some kind of sign or whatever i would easily switch to the other side. I have been thinking about this matter quite a lot and i came to the conclusion that IF there is a god, or some sort of higher being, it has a strange kind of humor.

Look at the material circumstances that cause religious belief and other such Phantoms of the mind to arise.
It’s not always mass delusion,
Now Many simply *want* to believe in Certain Ideas, and when people *want* to believe in something, it is very hard to make them see reason or rationality over the issue.
If someone says “I Know god exists because I have personal experience of it”
That generally means
No matter what evidence & arguments there is to count against these Phantoms of the mind they will not listen or even look at the evidence properly since the emotions connected with it cause a bottleneck.

Here we go again.

This is an insulting personal attack on people of faith.

There is no proof for this specultative and offensive statement, and no way to quantify it so why make it except to TROLL and cause trouble? This discussion was fine until you entered and made this insulting statement. That basically belittles those of faith as being unable to correctly view the world because we are emotional basketcases.

I personally know Leonis, and I know him to be a man of greater perception, intelligence, inner strength and clarity of mind than you will ever be.

[ 06-14-2002, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

Moderators, it would be wonderful if you could eject the interjector rather than close down discussion of that which is so central to humans lives.

Disagreement doesn't equate rudeness or insults.

;) Doesn't the maniac view the rest of humanity as insane? :D
Does the blind man criticised those who can see of beeing delusional?

If you can't see or feel what we are all seeing and feeling, how can you declare it to be delusional purely because you cannot?

One should be more careful declaring what doesn't exist than what does, as one is more likely to be proved wrong.

I cannot with any accuracy state "Unicorns do not exist".
All I can say is, "I have never seen a Unicorn"

Similarly you cannot say that God doesn't exist, only that you haven't met him, or experienced him in the way billions of other humans have.

[ 06-14-2002, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

Sadly yes, you just cant lay off, you prove my point by your every post.

If people are allowed to go about stating that god most definitely exists,
I am allowed to go about stating that there is no divine being.
Stating that there “Is a god” may be considered insulting
to those of no faith, think of that before you post Oh great master of flames.

No, You are deliberately misinterpreting my statements.
Once again your personal agenda shows through, can't you just admit you dislike me and leave it alone? Or will you continue to draw up spurious accusations?

dear me, you just can't lay off the personal attacks eh?

Dramnek - I haven't seen Yorick flame anyone. Perhaps you are trying to bait him into it? NOWHERE did he say that atheists cannot state their beliefs. He is allowed to discuss the matter as is anyone else.

*sigh* Where to begin with what's wrong here.

[quote]Originally posted by Yorick:
[QB]By the same logic, you cannot say that Santa Claus does not exist.
Yet people take it for granted that he does not.

That's the old "20,000 fanatics can't be wrong" argument.
Once, most people believed that the earth was flat.