I have four points on this.

1. Freedom of speech is very important. But so too is respect and courtesy for others, including their religions.

2. I personally did not find anything wrong with the first publishing of the cartoons. I believe people have the right to engage in satire as long as people know it is satire. I also believe that people have the right to protest peacefully against things they don't like, even if this extends to rallies, boycotts of products and so on. Christians will remember the furore that happened when the movie The Last Temptation of Christ was released, depicting Jesus having sexual relations with someone. I'm pretty sure there were lots of protests about that too. It's our right to engage in peaceful protest when we see things we don't like. That's a very important right.

3. It was extremely unwise of the EU papers to repost these cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed in a inflammatory and stupid way. Freedom of speech brings with it a lot of responsibility, particularly from members of the media. It is interesting that the US and UK have condemned the republishing of the cartoons not because they disagree with the newspapers' right to publish them, but rather for the reasons behind their being published, and the impact they have had on Muslims. It's called being stupid for no reason.

4. It's fine to do peaceful protests, rallies and boycotts, but the morons who are talking about killing and abducting Western diplomats and threatening more suicide bombings and violence over this are the biggest idiots of all. You're entitled to protest, but to threaten loss of life and violence over this is a massive exaggerated response in my option. Two wrongs don't make a right.

My 2c. [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color = lightgreen>Anyone who finds those cartoons insulting can just grow up and get over it! :rolleyes:

I would find cartoons insulting anything funny, because if you can't laugh at something then you have serious psychological problems. Besides, everything deserves to be ridiculed at some point. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] </font>

Yup, but that was my point. If we take Africa as being another place with an axe to grind as a result of Western interference then it would also explain why there's been a fair number of terrorists from the likes of Algeria and neighbouring countries.

I would still say that the impact upon the Middle-East of the West has been much greater though - simply as a result of technology making it much easier to do. We really didn't make much inroads into the non-coastal areas of Africa (the odd railway aside). Slavery, whilst devastating to coastal regions, didn't extent to most of the interior in my understanding (except when trafficked to the coast by natives) and in any case Africa was not even composed of homogenous countries.

The Middle-East however owes its current existence to the West - the Ottoman empire never really got to grips with it, it's states are largely artificially created during the last century and whole governments were entirely supported financially by the West. (eg. Syria by Britain pre-WW2 and America post-WW2 until they discovered oil.

Not to mention that the West planted a country in the middle of it, fought several wars (both directly and by proxy)in the region - both pre-WW2 and during the Cold War...I'd say they've had their fair share of interference.

Your 2c appraises for more in my book. Great points!

RANT...

Well let me be the first to apologize to Denmark, France, and all the EU countries who have made a stand for Freedom of Speech and Freedom of the Press. The apparently spineless US Gubberment has decided to stand in the forefront of those trading away fundamental rights to avoid making people 'mad'.

And to those who would say that Freedom of Speech doesn't apply in this case... I would say that if freedom of speech doesn't extend to saying something that will make someone else upset... then Freedom of Speech is a sham and an illusion. These Freedoms apply and need to be defended ESPECIALLY when you're saying something that might make someone else upset.

I'm embarrassed for my country that we would not be in the FOREFRONT of those defending the right of that Danish newspaper to print those stupid cartoons. We've sunk far.

grr...

/RANT

anyway... Memnoch you're making valid points regarding responsibility, and frankly the cartoons were poor at best... but some fault lies with the way the Islamic world has responded to the stupid things. There was a controversy surrounding the topic and the papers chose to cover that controversy, and informing their readers included reporducing those works. It was a judgement call, could it have been handled better... sure... but should the Danish and French Governments apologize for the decisions of a couple editers in a couple papers? HECK NO.

[ 02-03-2006, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: Thoran ]

You know it easy to tell other people to just "grow up and get over it" when that something doesn't effect you personally in any way. But when that something does effect you personally, let's see how "grow up" you can be.

There was once a boy back when I was still in secondary school who likes to make rude joke and pranks about other students and he would just laugh and tell other students to calm down and laugh together with him because as he said it " it was just a joke " . Then one day I cut a little piece of black cloth and hung it on his shoulder and jokingly remarked " wow, someone died? ". Good god you should see how berserk he was until several students had to restrain him because he started to throw punches at me.

Bad example? well, I couldn't think of any. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

<font color = lightgreen>I don't let what other people might say effect me personally, so I never have to worry about "growing up" or "getting over it". [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

People whose buttons get pushed easily by things such as cartoons deserve to have their buttons pushed often. [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img] </font>

Well, i have to admit that Bugs Bunny pissed me off once or twice. And i really hate Roadrunner. :D

I was talking to a good Muslim mate of mine here at school about this and he made a good point that Muslims have so many more important things to think about, worry about and get angry about that this. He told me that for too long Islam has been associated with violence, hatred and anger. He also told me a story about the Prophet Mohammed. He said: "During the Prophets lifetime, an old woman used to regularly throw garbage over the Prophet. One day when he passed her house there was no garbage thrown and he became concerned so he investigated and found out she was ill. When she saw the Prophets concern she became a Muslim."

I'm pretty sure the Prophet Mohammed would've have approved of these clowns below eh?

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...r399679231.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...r378273214.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...m-protest4.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...m-protest3.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...2127562052.jpg

And no, these blokes didn't come from some uneducated backwater village in Pakistan or Afghanistan - these are British Muslims in London calling for Bin Laden's help and threatening to retaliate 9/11 style. :rolleyes:

[ 02-04-2006, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

I honestly don't understand why the authorities allowed these pigs to go on a protestmarch. They should have given them the same treatment as any common mob of footballhooligans, and after that evict them from Britain.

[ 02-04-2006, 08:27 AM: Message edited by: johnny ]