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I'm just sick of having people I love being lumped in with violent extremists. I could be anti-American and say I'm sick of American ignorance coloring peoples perception of what it is to be christian, but that would be going to far, so I won't.

However, the number of times I see a whacko raving, and people referring to him as "fundamentalist" drives me insane!

It IS a relative term. Like IDEALIST. What are your ideals? Idealism isn't wrong.

Religion, faith, ideals, fundamentalism, intolerance. All relative terms. Any benefit or damage to an individual or society is found within the CONTENT of those beliefs, not simply having beliefs.

Otherwise it's a deification of moderationism.

[ 08-25-2004, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

Here are some words from a fundamentalist Australian Anglican, Peter Jensen:

Quote:

MEDIA RELEASE 14 April, 2003
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Archbishop Peter Jensen's Easter Message 2003
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I have heard it said that Jesus was never in a trench and that he never felt hot lead pass by his neck. He never lost a child to war, and he was blissfully unaware of the complex worries of modern life.
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It's a common complaint-that Jesus doesn't understand what some of us have been through; that he would have little to offer those of us living with today's conflicts, both global and personal.
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But the Bible tells us quite the opposite about Jesus, and Easter provides an ideal opportunity to clarify your thinking about who Jesus is and how he matters in the here and now.
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The Bible tells us that Jesus could sympathise with our weaknesses and that he was "tempted in every way, just. He also knew great suffering, dying at the hands of a callous ruler of empire having been betrayed and abandoned by those he called friends. Jesus saw great human tragedy, and he mourned it and sought to reverse it. He healed the sick; he sought out the lowly and oppressed; he fed the hungry. But all the while, he knew that to find relief, the human predicament required a more radical intervention.
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Not long ago, the Australian songwriter Nick Cave penned an extraordinary lyric which began: "I don't believe in an interventionist God". Since my early teenage years, I have believed the opposite and to me it has made all the difference. God is a loving intervener-he gets involved in our lives, for our good.
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Easter convinces me that God does intervene in-in fact, he governs-affairs on earth. He planned a spiritual intervention that restored our fortunes. At a particular point in history, he sent Jesus to reveal God's plan for the salvation of those he loves, to suffer and die, and then to rise from the grave as the justified ruler of the universe.
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In doing this, God gave history a shape that we can understand. He showed us Jesus at the heart of the universe, the one who was God in the flesh, and the one who assured us of God's love by becoming a sacrifice for sin. The death and resurrection of Jesus-that is, the Easter message-makes sense of the vast and tangled data of our own lives and the accumulated history of the world.
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It is not up to us to say when God is intervening in human affairs-whether in war or peace. However, we can know with confidence that in Jesus Christ he came into the world to save sinners, me and you, Australian, American, Indonesian and Iraqi. This is what we celebrate at Easter, when we come before God with joyful humility, to acknowledge that Jesus is saviour and Lord. May this be your conviction and confession this Easter.

[ 08-25-2004, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

What does it matter what another labels somebody? We are what we are, labels mean only what we alow them to mean. Call me what you want that doesn't make it so, besides as I have said before I've been called worse., and probibily by better ;)

You can label me a mass murderer, that doesn't make me one. You can label me a Christain southern hairychested knuckle-dragging mouth-breathing gun totter, that doesn't make me one, my action make me one. :D I are what I are.

Quote:

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric:
Boys, boys, boys....NO FIGHTING! [img]graemlins/nono.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/fight.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/nono.gif[/img]

Ziroc - can we get a smiley that has a bucket of water being dumped on two cats fighting? I think we could use one. ;)

Right on the money!

In passing, I'll put in that I view "fundamentalism" as one of our vaguest -isms.

I generally operate on the assumption that the word has two distinct meanings;

1) The pacifist live-by-Christ's/Buddha's/Mohammed's word crowd. Usually includes thoughtful, socially conscious people.

2) The Biblical Old Testament/jihad-hungry groups. Tend to be reactionary and intolerant.

Okay, I see a [img]graemlins/choc3.gif[/img] on the horizon coming to lecture me about bending the moratorium on religious discussion, so I shall stop here. [img]graemlins/outtahere.gif[/img]

Quote:

I are what I are.

What's that? An ebonics afficianado?

Actually it's just a misquoted Eminem verse. :D

Quote:

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:
Actually it's just a misquoted Eminem verse. :D

So that would be a yes.

@Yorick - a small point you may like to ponder. I'm not sure whether you have interpreted the phrase "an elect or chosen membership" quite in context. I believe what the author of the piece was getting at was the belief of these "fundamentalists" that they are "elect" in the extreme Clavinist doctrinal sense of the word i.e predestined for salvation. "Chosen" in this context is synonymous and interchangeable.

In short, it is an indicator of narrow, elitist and intolerant dogma.

Quote:

Originally posted by Mouse:
@Yorick - a small point you may like to ponder. I'm not sure whether you have interpreted the phrase "an elect or chosen membership" quite in context. I believe what the author of the piece was getting at was the belief of these "fundamentalists" that they are "elect" in the extreme Clavinist doctrinal sense of the word i.e predestined for salvation. "Chosen" in this context is synonymous and interchangeable.

In short, it is an indicator of narrow, elitist and intolerant dogma.

Interesting Mouse, I didn't thunk of it that way. I may have to re-look at my conversation with T.L. yesterday on this issue. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:
Actually it's just a misquoted Eminem verse. :D

Actually, that's brilliant Ronn. The song "The Way I Am" is a very powerful song and a powerful argument, and basically just gives a big shrug and a middle finger to those who would label you. It turns the whole "You are _____ " thing on its head, and says: "Yeah, sure, so be it. Now don't blame me for acting accordingly." It's very applicable to this thread.

[ 08-25-2004, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]