Yeay, go team! I hate this thread! I don't know what anybody's talking about! Yeay!

Damn and blast.

Yay! I missed the finish :-( But all's well that ends well...

Unbelievable win. Choke of Englandesque proportions. :D

Add me in.

Sod it. Lets invent another sport and not teach it to anyone else. This has been our consistant problem, rugby, cricket, football, as soon as we teach it someone else they eventually get better at it than us, usually to a humiliating degree.

I'm in! Although I'd rather think that the plan would backfire, as to keep the game's rules secret, we'd have to play it in secret and then where would the international sporting pride be?

I think we should do what New Zealand's rugby team does and import Polynesians! :D

Bit far for you lot to import Samoans mate. Maybe you could import some Irish? :D :D :D

Well I think we should simply change the immigration laws for all incoming Indians and Pakistanis into Britain, so we can winnow out the good cricketers [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Well Martyn has done a Trescothick and quit under pressure, A pom picked to play for Australia in the ashes, fletcher and freddie are arguing.

Its all happening! [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

I saw it more of a 'jump before I am pushed' type of retirement than a 'can't take the pressure' type. I didn't really see it as the same as poor old Stresscothick.

Was a big shock that's for sure.

Its meant to be a bad wicket for the next test, doubt it will go 5 days. I jusy hope England don't loose by an innings!!

I hope Symonds does well. So much potential. I like it that he's a medium pacer, a spinner and a batsman, and has so much positivity in his teamsmanship. He's a true allrounder in every sense of the word. I like that in a cricketer.

In D&D terms he's like a Bard or a Fighter/Magic-User/Theif. A Jack of all trades with an infectious uplifting team spirit. I'm glad that there's room for a generalist with so many specialists about.

Apparently the WACA's pitch is the best it's been for many years. Shocker of a first day for the aussies though. Chin up you poms, this one should be yours.

Well done to Monty!! It's been a long time since an Englishman got 5 wickets there!!
Just hope England don't collapse!!

So who was the stupid git that did not choose to play him in Adalaide? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

First time I have seen him bowl and though he did not spin it much his bounce and flight were sensational. With Harmison now playing well at least we have a TEST match.

How good is Hussy eh! :eek:

I didn't think Monty bowled as well as I've seen him play before. Was good to finally see Harmison turn up, only 2 tests to late!!

I've no idea why he was left out of the first two, was that down to Fredy?

I can't help but feel an awful day of batting is coming up, knowing England's current run of form.

They looked nervous last night after Cook and Bell fell. The first hour today is crucial for the poms. If they survive they can go on to get a lead and possibly win, if not they will crumble and the game and the ashes will be over by day 3

Hussey is another Bradman.

He couldn't really get all that much to be honest [img]tongue.gif[/img] 5 - 92 on an Ashes debut. The previous best bowler's score at the WACA was 4-83 by Shane Warne.

But now it's all going our well we can safely stick two fingers up at the fans, and fall flat on our faces. Hooray for English cricket.

He couldn't really get all that much to be honest [img]tongue.gif[/img] 5 - 92 on an Ashes debut. The previous best bowler's score at the WACA was 4-83 by Shane Warne. </font>[/QUOTE]Previous nest SPIN bowler's best. McGrath has taken 8 for 24 at the WACA.

Oh yeah, and Curtly Ambrose has taken 7 for 1

Back when it was a fast bowler's paradise.

Oh sorry. My BBC live text reading skills fail me ;)

The poms are on the run .....

I can only echo Dan, some bloke who texted the BBC live text feed.

Wonderful, yet another superb batting preformance by England :rolleyes: NOT!! I don't even want to think what would have happened if we didn't have Pietersen & Collingwood!!

[ 12-15-2006, 07:22 AM: Message edited by: Target ]

The pitch was not that easy to play on at first i suspect but is now playing great just in time for the aussies to build a lead of 450 :D

Don't tell me that this picknick has not yet ended ? When is there ever going to be a winner in this godforsaken excuse for a sport ? Whenever the first participant chokes on his cup of tea ?

Cricket's not so hot in South Korea either... :(

Another 12 days of playing yet to go. It ends sometime next year :D

Although it could be "all over" by later tonight thanks to Adam Gilfreak.

Apparently Clarke and he put out the message to the dressing room asking if they shold go all out with an eye for a late declaration. They thought the answer was "yes", when it was apparently "no".....

So they went all out and Australia made a late declaration. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I left the bar just after Hussey got his hundred. What a way to wake up today! Gilly 2nd fasted century ever!!!

They outplayed us in every part of the park, batting, bowling and fielding. Three tests has to say something (and other world matches too). I'm amazed that we stick with second rate players, particularly our wicket keeper. An average or slightly above average county standard player is not world class material. Geraint Jones is retained for his batting! Don't make me laugh. We need a GOOD wicketkeeper just for starters, not a stop gap wicketkeeper come fair to middling batsman. A great wicketkeepers contribution can support and inspire a fielding team, same as a great bowler of any pace.

Not Geraints fault...
...It just shows our selectors mentality and what they're happy to accept on the world stage.

[ 12-16-2006, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: Charlie ]

The selectors and the poor planning by management that sent an underprepaired team to fight the world champs hungry for revenge. Just two Mickey Mouse games before the first test ..What a joke

Harm em son ..Under bowled before the first match
Anderson.... under bowled before the first match
Giles.. Not played in a year and they thought his defensive nude balls (nothing on them) better than Monty????
Ma inthe mood ..Not unless there is plenty of moisture in the air! So they play him in Perth in the middle of Australia’s worst drought
Capt Fred ... 100% effort wasted by giving him the captains role on top of a dodgy ankle.
Hoggard ... as honest as the day is long but really needs swing conditions
Monty... delivers spin better than delivering the drinks so they make him suffer from the sidelines!

Troy Cooley... bowling coach that helped win the ashes in 2005 let go and now coaches the Australians

And they wonder why they have not bowled Australia out twice in a game!!!! :eek:


I suspect England will win or draw the last two matches, because their effort has been 100% but the ashes will already be lost!

Amen

English Cricket R.I.P

Well, I'm posting my match report that I wrote on ESPNSTAR and PakPassion here, even though most won't be able to understand it. :D

First up, full credit to England for taking the contest into after lunch on Day 5. Yesterday was a great fightback, but OZ were just too good today. The fall of Cook's wicket was the beginning of the end and even though Flintoff showed some great defiance today it was really just one wicket away from the tail. Once Freddy fell after his fifty it was just a matter of time.

I think the series has been closer than the 3-0 scoreline suggests: England were walloped in the first Test, but were very competitive in the 2nd and 3rd Tests. They just couldn't win the key moments to swing those matches their way - a collapse in the 2nd Test which said more about their mindset than their talent and they failed to seize the moment in the 1st innings of this Test. I think that's what differentiates very good teams (which England are) from great teams (which is what this OZ team is) - the ability to compete for all 15 sessions of a match, then to seize the moment when it comes and capitalise on it. England competed very hard in patches, but lost composure during some of the key moments and failed to seize the moment. At this level those moments come few and far between and you've really got to be prepared to take advantage of them when they come. But I think they'll improve. This was the first OZ tour for some of these blokes and there's a good core of young players there with Cook, KP, Monty and Bell - the important thing for them now is to see how they respond to this setback, and see if they can win the next two matches. It's how a team responds to adversity that tells you how good, or great, they are.

It's been a great performance from OZ, they worked really hard for this and you could tell from the tears and elation on the field what it meant to win this back. They took the 2005 loss as a humiliation and worked to "set things right", so to speak.

This series could also mean we've seen the end of the likes of Hayden, Langer and maybe McGrath, given that it's another year till the next Test series. Judging from Warney's comments after the match, I think he might play on, but the other three? There's nothing left for them to achieve. We could see a changing of the guard come January.

My five takeways from the series so far:

1. Self-belief. I think England were just missing a bit of it during the series. As mentioned above it led to their inability to seize the moments which could have brought victory for them in Adelaide and then here in Perth.

2. Michael Vaughan. England really missed his leadership. Freddie looked a broken man with all the pressure on him to bat well and shore up the middle order, and bowl well (particularly in the first two Tests).

3. It ain't over till the Fat Boy spins. Shane Warne typifies the never-say-die attitude of the Baggy Greens. It doesn't matter that he goes for 0-120 in one innings, he has the ability to put all that in the back of his mind. He really does believe that every ball he bowls, every spell he bowls, has the chance of taking a wicket. One day he'll get banned for overappealing but geez he's fun to watch and we (as an audience, not just the OZ team) will miss him when he's gone. He's unique.

4. KP will be an all-time great. I didn't rate him before this series (or rather, I rated him but not as high as everyone else was rating him) but he's been the one England player with loads of self-belief. He has some technical deficiencies and still needs to work on his temperament but he's the kind of bloke that looks forward to the contests with the great bowlers. If he can learn to apply better judgment (which will come with time) I think he could be England's No3 or No4 for the next 10 years.

5. Ditto Mike Hussey. When he was being interviewed for his MOTM something he said in response to a question from Simon O'Donnell struck me. O'Donnell was saying something along the lines of "do you regret not getting to play earlier?" He responded by saying: "I've had to work very hard and wait a long time to get into the team but that's the way it should be...it's a sign of the competitiveness of selection. Wearing the colours of your country is something very special and it's made me value every single moment I go out there and play for Australia, because I've had to work so hard to earn my spot...and I'll never ever take it for granted." Before this series the question marks over him that the English were raising were that he was a bit of a minnow basher and only scored his tons against minnows like WI, SA and Bangladesh (their words, not mine). With four half tons and a ton against a pretty decent England attack I think he's proven that he's a pretty good batsman. He has ability, patience and good judgment and is just about impossible to get out.

And I'll cheat and put in a sixth takeaway:

6. The OZ can still improve. We effectively went into this match a batman short with Symmo being just not up to it as a batsman (and wasn't really used as a bowler in the 2nd innings, either). I'm still not sold on Lee's consistency - he just doesn't seem to use his brain as much as others. I think Tait's a better option. McGrath improved as the match went on and showed that he is on par with Warney at thinking-out a batsman, but I think he's only got another year ahead of him. It was good to see that it wasn't just the big names that performed in this series, but the lesser ones like Clarke, Clark and Hussey. They'll be key members of this team in the future.

It's been a good series for me, exactly what I expected - I know that neutrals will probably think it's been a thrashing and an anti-climax, but I think there's been lots of tension so far. It's funny, but you can play really well in each match but still get hammered 5-0. England have put up a great fight, but ultimately they've just lacked that little bit of class and composure at the end. But that's what tours to OZ are all about - overcoming adversity, whether it be a bad umpiring call, a great bowler, a hostile crowd or whatever, and seeing what you're made of.

England were average. Average fielding and batting collapses says it all on the world stage. K.P was outstanding as per. We tried our best and wasn't good enough, it wasn't even close to good enough in my opinion.
The Australians played world class cricket

Well done Australia.

[ 12-18-2006, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: Charlie ]

I doubt the Australian team will change for the next test but what about England? what changes will / should they make?

Fixing the batting is easy enough - they have their best players playing, and there's nobody from outside the side that might improve their batting. Felcher needs to move KP to 4 and Collywobble to 5. I don't think Felcher can hide KP down in the order any longer - along with Strauss he's England's best bat and he needs to bat higher to attack the bowling. Collywobble is a more defensive player and can provide that link between the top and lower middle order.

Neither bat with the tail very well, but I think Colly is better than KP at doing so - KP was exposing the bunnies to Warne and Pidge taking a single first ball of each over. It's also worth noting that KP's been pretty much one of the last men standing amid the wreckage of England's batting in this Test. You don't want this bloke running out of partners and batting with the bunnies, you want him to in a position where he can shape the course of the innings. At the moment he's coming in and having to adjust his game to how the innings has played out. Plus the OZ can set defensive fields for him, give him the singles (which he takes) and work on getting his partners out.

The rest of the batting is ok, though I feel Flintoff is batting one spot too high. I think he should really be a cowlashing No7, instead of a No6. Ideally you'd have another batsman at No6 (which would mean that a wicketkeeper would have to bat at No8). Since GoJo's Test career is likely been euthanased in this match this would probably be Read (who's another rabbit).

But then you have to take take away a bowler, which is the real problem for England - inability to take 20 Australian wickets (they took 11 in Brisbane, 14 in Adelaide and 15 in Perth). Taking out a bowler means you would have to take out one of Mahmood or Anderson, and go with three pacers in Flintoff, Harmy and Hoggard, and have Panesar bowling a lot of overs. Can those 4 bowlers - one of them an allrounder - take 20 wickets at the MCG and SCG? I doubt it.

All of a sudden this side doesn't look all that balanced, does it. Felcher was really counting on GoJo to be a Gilly type player, to balance the 5 man bowling attack. His failure has left England with a very long tail.

Strauss
Cook
Bell
KP
Collywobble
(Another batsman)
Freddie
Read/GoJo
Harmy
Panesar
Hoggard

Given GoJo's loss of batting form and complete mental breakdown, I think Freddie will have to keep batting at 6, and Mahmood or Anderson (or Plunkett) will have to play, and they'll have to go without that lower-middle order bat that I think they need.

[ 12-18-2006, 10:23 PM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]