Ironworks Gaming Forum - SCUDs found on their way to Yemen

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I had thought that the Catholic end of the world was when the world was perfect, because that is when the creation is complete... Somthing like that.

Krustin, are you serious about the 10,000 km/sec? That's outrageous. Around the world in four seconds?!

Quote:

Originally posted by johnny:
I'm curious how one uses a scud as a defensive weapon ? It has no intercepting capabilities. These missiles go straight to the wrong people and will probably be used against Israel once they have them. I've understood they are giving them back Yemen...well, that's just stupid. That country is one big pirates nest, you don't want them to have anything of that kind of stuff. Like all other Arabs, they do nothing but lie about their REAL intentions. A scud as a defensive weapon.....yeah right.

Quote:

Originally posted by Gregster:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Donut:
"There is no provision under international law prohibiting Yemen from accepting delivery of missiles from North Korea. While there is authority to stop and search, in this instance there's no clear authority to seize the shipment of Scud missiles from North Korea to Yemen and, therefore, the merchant vessel is being released."

Not international law, perhaps...just the various treaties the North Koreans have entered into where they promised to dismatle their WMD and missile programs and not export missile technology of any type in exchange for political recognition and economic aid (the latter being something they desparately need).

North Korea remains one of the (if not THE) world's top missile exporters...so much for treaties.[/QUOTE]so...the USA is allowed to break its treaties (anti-ballistic missle treaty), and N. Korea isn`t? Talk about hypocrites.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeffi0:
Krustin, are you serious about the 10,000 km/sec? That's outrageous. Around the world in four seconds?!

I guess he meant 10,000km/hour ;)

http://home.no.net/proteusx/monkeybush.jpg

If someone takes offensive to the above picture, apologise for the repetitive postings of pictures insulting arab leaders (of course not bin laden, but others, like arafat), and I will remove it.

[ 12-20-2002, 01:24 AM: Message edited by: Scholarcs ]

Quote:

Originally posted by johnny:
History lessons in Iraq for instance, teach us that Iraq won the Gulfwar. I must have been on another planet at that time, cause on the planet i was on, Iraq got his behind kicked... big time !

Quote:

Originally posted by Attalus:
Underlying most of the individual grievances is a sense that Islam has lost its rightful place of dominance, the place it enjoyed half a millennium ago. Al Qaeda deputy Ayman Zawahiri's allusions to the loss of Andalusia (medieval Spain) reinforce Osama bin Laden's promise of revenge and redemption.

If america lost...say...Alaska or Hawaii to a foreign invader, how long would you expect the american government to fight to get it back without success? A week?

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Krustin:
A point about arabs:

They respect strength.

Everything in arab culture is about strength. If you show weakness, you are expected to submit. There is no shame in submitting to a dominant culture in arab. There is great shame in submitting when you are the stronger. An examination of middle-eastern history shows many examples of this

One thing that really irritates me about the arab apologists here and in the states is how they think that war won't solve the problem, and diplomacy is the only way to handle the terrorist problem.

The biggest problem with this terrorist situation is that they already perceive the american culture as weak because of the focus on peacemaking. All that has to be done is to convince the arabs they are weaker.

How do you do that, you ask?

Step on them Bomb 'em, shoot 'em, obliterate them until they scream "uncle". Do whatever it takes to show them who is stronger. Until this is done, the arabs won't submit and the terrorism will continue.

Strangely enough, the USA has the same viewpoint as that. In fact, some arabs/muslims believe that the the only way to show america who is stronger is to "Bomb 'em, shoot 'em, obliterate them", as you so put it. This is not what you want to happen, I assume.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Krustin:

Don't believe Islam states violence is acceptable? Read the Koran.

Thats like saying that the Bible states that the inquisition was acceptable.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Krustin:
Step on them Bomb 'em, shoot 'em, obliterate them until they scream "uncle". Do whatever it takes to show them who is stronger. Until this is done, the arabs won't submit and the terrorism will continue.

Dude, as far as i can see, you've taken offense of EVERYTHING i said in the past, now ask me if i care.

Quote:

Originally posted by johnny:
Dude, as far as i can see, you've taken offense of EVERYTHING i said in the past, now ask me if i care.

Edited because I don`t actually feel that way about dutch, it was just an example

[ 12-20-2002, 05:39 AM: Message edited by: Scholarcs ]

Quote:

Originally posted by Scholarcs:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by johnny:
Dude, as far as i can see, you've taken offense of EVERYTHING i said in the past, now ask me if i care.

Right then, so I guess its ok for me to call all dutch murdering lying cheating cowards?[/QUOTE]If that's what makes you happy...go ahead. Like i said, i don't care, you're nothing to me.

Quote:

Originally posted by johnny:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Scholarcs:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by johnny:
Dude, as far as i can see, you've taken offense of EVERYTHING i said in the past, now ask me if i care.

Right then, so I guess its ok for me to call all dutch murdering lying cheating cowards?[/QUOTE]If that's what makes you happy...go ahead. Like i said, i don't care, you're nothing to me.[/QUOTE]Good.

One more thing though...i'm curious. Why did you post those pictures of Mr. Bush and yourself here ? I thought you didn't like him ? :D

Quote:

Originally posted by johnny:
One more thing though...i'm curious. Why did you post those pictures of Mr. Bush and yourself here ? I thought you didn't like him ? :D

lol [img]tongue.gif[/img]

On a more serious note though johnny, I see you like making jokes and having fun etc. If your posts in this thread have just been that running away with you, then please think again before posting in a serious discussion on this (or a similar) topic.

Scholarcs and johnny - take your personal animosity elsewhere. If you are going to participate further in this thread, argue and discuss the facts, DO NOT carry on this childish tit-for-tat namecalling and flamebaiting.

You have been warned.

Quote:

Originally posted by Mouse:
Scholarcs and johnny - take your personal animosity elsewhere. If you are going to participate further in this thread, argue and discuss the facts, DO NOT carry on this childish tit-for-tat namecalling and flamebaiting.

You have been warned.

Thanks for the warning.

HOWEVER if someone DOES happen to make a racist remark anywhere, then I will reply to it.

Quote:

Originally posted by Scholarcs:
If someone takes offensive to the above picture, apologise for the repetitive postings of pictures insulting arab leaders (of course not bin laden, but others, like arafat), and I will remove it.

Actually, I don't see how that picture adds anything to this thread's original discussion or to the discussion of racist comments. [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

Actually, I don't remember seeing any Arafat cartoons either, but I'll take your word for it, so are you trying to hold those who haven't posted any offensive pictures, but may find your picture offensive, hostage, or are they just collateral damage? ;) :D

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeffi0:
I had thought that the Catholic end of the world was when the world was perfect, because that is when the creation is complete... Somthing like that.

Krustin, are you serious about the 10,000 km/sec? That's outrageous. Around the world in four seconds?!

Actually, it is. 10,000m/sec is what I should have said. Did the conversion twice (I was in a hurry) ;)

Change the "5 meters" in my post to 5km.

[ 12-20-2002, 07:29 AM: Message edited by: Sir Krustin ]

Quote:

Originally posted by Chewbacca:
[/qb]

Actually I was illustrating a point about making incorrect generlizations. [img]smile.gif[/img]
I didn't know I had made previous assumptions about things christian. Based on your tone, You would be suprised by how little you know of what I know. ;)

You are making an assumption about Muslims and what the rules and laws of Allah are.

http://islampeace.org/

Here is a place to start about Islam. I found this and thousand of other sites using Google.

Be warned: Islam is as multi-faceted as every other religion.[/QUOTE]

Good morning Chewbaca.

You have in the past made some comemnts in religious threads that left me with the impression that you do in fact tend to generalize about christians [img]smile.gif[/img] Im not trying to nit pick here, and my "tone" was nothing more than making a general comment. There were no angry smileys or disapproving frowns.

I would not be surprised at what you know, but I do make assumptions that when you incorrectly catagorize something, then you must not know a particular thing.
Be that as it may though, I wasn't harshly chastising you but merely commenting.

As for the rules of Islam and Allah, The actions of Mohammed and the exhortations in the Quran (sp? how come there are so many spellings for this word?) are undeniably violent and filled with instances where it is ok to commit violence and otherwise objectionable actions. Mohammed did in fact make a peace intending to use the time to gather his force with wich to destroy those he was talking peace to, this is pretty much called duplicity today. There are other actions taken by Mohamed that would have had him incarcerated in todays world where abuse of children and sex with minors are illegal. Islam is as bloody and hate filled as the old testement of the bible, with accepted duplicity thrown in for good measure.

I apologize for the spelling mistakes here but I can't find consistant english translations and spellings of many of the words used in the middle east.

As for google searches [img]smile.gif[/img] I am also one who frequently exhorts people to use google [img]smile.gif[/img] I have quite enough info on what Islam is and what it means without resorting to the Pro-Islam links or the anti-islam links. I prefer to try and find neutral sources for facts or if I can't do that, at least find sites with less "spin:.

Anyway, sorry if you found my post insulting, it was not intended as such.


[ 12-20-2002, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Quote:

Originally posted by Scholarcs:
.

I`m not even going to bother reading the rest of johnnys posts after the blatent racism in this post, which I personally take offense to.

The facts are here:

#1 - as a nation, Yemen is permitted to arm itself, just as every other country in the world is permitted to (and does).
#2 - the spanish patrol ships did have the right to board the boat, as it was unflagged. If it had been flagged, then they would not have been allowed to board it (unless they wanted to be charged with piracy).

You leave out one little tiny fact that I posted earlier. Yemen has a history of "defensively" using SCUDS against civilians, as was done during their last civil war. Yep real racist to point out the truth.

[/qb][/QUOTE]so...the USA is allowed to break its treaties (anti-ballistic missle treaty), and N. Korea isn`t? Talk about hypocrites.

Again you ignore the truth. The Nation that the ABM treaty was with does not exist any longer, thus there is no treaty to break. When you can show me where on the map the United Soviet Socialist Republic exists today then I will admit that the ABM treaty was broken. The US did not make that treaty with any currently exisiting entity.

If someone takes offensive to the above picture, apologise for the repetitive postings of pictures insulting arab leaders (of course not bin laden, but others, like arafat), and I will remove it.[/QB][/QUOTE]

You seem to take delight in ignoreing the truth and facts, you posted an offensive political picture in this thread, indicating that it is in retaliation for other posts offensive to arabs...except there are no such picture posts in THIS thread.

Got to hand it to you though, you sure can stir debate with innuendo, half truths and ignoring of facts.

EDIT: For those who are just waiting to pounce on someone for racism...bashing Muslims and Islam is not racist. Islam and being Muslim is not a RACE issue. It is a religious issue. There is no race of Muslim people.

[ 12-20-2002, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Quote:

Originally posted by MagiK:
As usual when it comes to things Christian, Chewy you got it wrong [img]smile.gif[/img] but thats ok [img]smile.gif[/img] Christians don't lust for doomsday. Christians if they believe the bible as literal believe that there will be war and famine and an "End of times" but they don't lust for it, they aren't exhorted to bring it on...Unlike Muslims, who if they are true to the laws and rules of Islam must work toward the destruction of all infidels.

Try actually reading some of the new testement guy [img]smile.gif[/img] you might be surprised to find it isn't as hate filled as you might think.

An interesting thing about the Christian view of the end of the world. In older times Judgement day was seen as the ultimate day off. As the vast majority of people lived lives that were much harder then anything experienced today. Nowadays we view Judgement day as the ultimate off day instead.

Quote:

Originally posted by Rokenn:
An interesting thing about the Christian view of the end of the world. In older times Judgement day was seen as the ultimate day off. As the vast majority of people lived lives that were much harder then anything experienced today. Nowadays we view Judgement day as the ultimate off day instead.

Hey Rokenn [img]smile.gif[/img] . Personally I think that there is too much effort being put into trying to make the Bible a litteral work, and that it should be seen more an aliterative (is that the right word?) work. It uses parables and simple stories to teach meaning to what were basicly unschooled people. The end of days, may happen exactly as written but I personally think it won't be that way. Heck it could end up with us being fried by our own sun when it goes unstable at some point in the future. (by ultimate off day...do you mean..like a big holliday?)

[ 12-20-2002, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[quote]Originally posted by Scholarcs:

Quote:

the USA is allowed to break its treaties (anti-ballistic missle treaty), and N. Korea isn`t? Talk about hypocrites.

The ABM treaty wasn't broken.

The treaty included an option that allowed either nation to withdraw from the agreement after giving 6 months notice. That was part of the original agreement, thirty years ago, and all subsequent alterations signed by both nations, so the US did not break the ABM treaty, and even in withdrawing from it, followed the correct procedure.

You may have legitimate examples of US treaty hypocracy, but this isn't one. This is an example of how the US does follow its treaties. ;)

[ 12-20-2002, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

Quote:

Originally posted by Scholarcs:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by johnny:
History lessons in Iraq for instance, teach us that Iraq won the Gulfwar. I must have been on another planet at that time, cause on the planet i was on, Iraq got his behind kicked... big time !

and let me guess...US history books say that in Vietnam 19,000 innocent women and children were killed (massacared) in non-combat situations? If they don`t...then you have the same situation as in Iraq, the country trying to impress a good image of itself on its children. American school books on history do not go into enough details to include anything like casualty figures. Books that do, however, are in the scool libraries. They do not say that we won the Viet Nam War, which would be much closer to the point that I you should be trying to make.

Quote:

Originally posted by Attalus:
Underlying most of the individual grievances is a sense that Islam has lost its rightful place of dominance, the place it enjoyed half a millennium ago. Al Qaeda deputy Ayman Zawahiri's allusions to the loss of Andalusia (medieval Spain) reinforce Osama bin Laden's promise of revenge and redemption.

If america lost...say...Alaska or Hawaii to a foreign invader, how long would you expect the american government to fight to get it back without success? A week? Maybe not in a few weeks, but in 500 years, when there are a bunch of people living there that don't want you to rule them, I think that we would have gotten the point a long time ago.

[/QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally posted by MagiK:
Personally I think that there is too much effort being put into trying to make the Bible a litteral work, and that it should be seen more an aliterative (is that the right word?) work. It uses parables and simple stories to teach meaning to what were basicly unschooled people.

Do you mean allegorical? Alliterative means several words in close succession in a sentence start with the same sound (like in "O wild West Wind, thou breath of Autumn's being"). [img]smile.gif[/img]

I have never made a broad generalization about Christians or Christianity. I respect each individuals birthright to seek meaning in life as they find it, Be it spiritual or otherwise.

Certainly, I have never made the kind of negative stereotyping portrayed towards Muslims and Arabs in this thread.

I do question. Just as I question Christianity, I Question Islam.

Although not personally insulted, as I am not a Muslim, I find some comments in this thread are disrespectful about Muslim's and Islam.
Perhaps some thinking will help.

The Real practice of Islam is a journey of personal submission to Allah. To follow Allah's laws.

Just like all religions, the personal, spiritual aspect is the fundemental core of Islamic practice.

People DO interpret things many different ways, they do. How else would people do extremely evil acts in the name of the most kind, merciful and compassionate?

Here is a snippet about Allah:

http://islampeace.org/whoisallah.html

Quote:

Who is Allah?

It is a known fact that every language has one or more terms that are used in reference to God and sometimes to lesser deities. This is not the case with Allah. Allah is the personal name of the One true God. Nothing else can be called Allah. The term has no plural or gender. This shows its uniqueness when compared with the word god which can be made plural, gods, or feminine, goddess. It is interesting to notice that Allah is the personal name of God in Aramaic, the language of Jesus and a sister language of Arabic.
The One true God is a reflection of the unique concept that Islam associates with God. To a Muslim, Allah is the Almighty, Creator and Sustainer of the universe, Who is similar to nothing and nothing is comparable to Him. The Prophet Muhammad was asked by his contemporaries about Allah; the answer came directly from God Himself in the form of a short chapter of the Quran, which is considered the essence of the unity or the motto of monotheism. This is chapter 112 which reads:

"In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate. Say (O Muhammad) He is God the One God, the Everlasting Refuge, who has not begotten, nor has been begotten, and equal to Him is not anyone."

Some non-Muslims allege that God in Islam is a stern and cruel God who demands to be obeyed fully. He is not loving and kind. Nothing can be farther from truth than this allegation. It is enough to know that, with the exception of one, each of the 114 chapters of the Quran begins with the verse: "In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate." In one of the sayings of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) we are told that "God is more loving and kinder than a mother to her dear child."

But God is also Just. Hence evildoers and sinners must have their share of punishment and the virtuous, His bounties and favors. Actually God's attribute of Mercy has full manifestation in His attribute of Justice. People suffering throughout their lives for His sake and people oppressing and exploiting other people all their lives should not receive similar treatment from their Lord. Expecting similar treatment for them will amount to negating the very belief in the accountability of man in the Hereafter and thereby negating all the incentives for a moral and virtuous life in this world. The following Quranic verses are very clear and straightforward in this respect:

"Verily, for the Righteous are gardens of Delight, in the Presence of their Lord. Shall We then treat the people of Faith like the people of Sin? What is the matter with you? How judge you?" (68:34-36)

Islam rejects characterizing God in any human form or depicting Him as favoring certain individuals or nations on the basis of wealth, power or race. He created the human beings as equals. They may distinguish themselves and get His favor through virtue and piety only.

The concept that God rested in the seventh day of creation, that God wrestled with one of His soldiers, that God is an envious plotter against mankind, or that God is incarnate in any human being are considered blasphemy from the Islamic point of view.

The unique usage of Allah as a personal name of God is a reflection of Islam's emphasis on the purity of the belief in God which is the essence of the message of all God's messengers. Because of this, Islam considers associating any deity or personality with God as a deadly sin which God will never forgive, despite the fact He may forgive all other sins.

[Note that what is meant above applies ONLY to those people who die in a state wherein they are associating others with God. The repentance of those who yet live is acceptable to God if He wills. - MSA of USC]

The Creator must be of a different nature from the things created because if he is of the same nature as they are, he will be temporal and will therefore need a maker. It follows that nothing is like Him. If the maker is not temporal, then he must be eternal. But if he is eternal, he cannot be caused, and if nothing outside him causes him to continue to exist, which means that he must be self-sufficient. And if the does not depend on anything for the continuance of his own existence, then this existence can have no end. The Creator is therefore eternal and everlasting: "He is the First and the Last."

He is Self-Sufficient or Self-Subsistent or, to use a Quranic term, Al-Qayyum. The Creator does not create only in the sense of bringing things into being, He also preserves them and takes them out of existence and is the ultimate cause of whatever happens to them.

"God is the Creator of everything. He is the guardian over everything. Unto Him belong the keys of the heavens and the earth." (39:62, 63)

"No creature is there crawling on the earth, but its provision rests on God. He knows its lodging place and it repository." (11:6)

God's Attributes

If the Creator is Eternal and Everlasting, then His attributes must also be eternal and everlasting. He should not lose any of His attributes nor acquire new ones. If this is so, then His attributes are absolute. Can there be more than one Creator with such absolute attributes? Can there be for example, two absolutely powerful Creators? A moment's thought shows that this is not feasible.

The Quran summarizes this argument in the following verses:

"God has not taken to Himself any son, nor is there any god with Him: For then each god would have taken of that which he created and some of them would have risen up over others." (23:91)

And Why, were there gods in earth and heaven other than God, they (heaven and earth) would surely go to ruin." (21:22)

The Oneness of God

The Quran reminds us of the falsity of all alleged gods. To the worshippers of man-made objects, it asks:

"Do you worship what you have carved yourself?" (37:95)

"Or have you taken unto you others beside Him to be your protectors, even such as have no power either for good or for harm to themselves?" (13:16)

To the worshippers of heavenly bodies it cites the story of Abraham:

"When night outspread over him he saw a star and said, 'This is my Lord.' But when it set he said, 'I love not the setters.' When he saw the moon rising, he said, 'This is my Lord.' But when it set he said, 'If my Lord does not guide me I shall surely be of the people gone astray.' When he saw the sun rising, he said, 'This is my Lord; this is greater.' But when it set he said, 'O my people, surely I quit that which you associate, I have turned my face to Him Who originated the heavens and the earth; a man of pure faith, I am not of the idolaters.'" (6:76-79)

The Believer's Attitude

In order to be a Muslim, i.e., to surrender oneself to God, it is necessary to believe in the oneness of God, in the sense of His being the only Creator, Preserver, Nourisher, etc. But this belief - later on called "Tawhid Ar-Rububiyyah" - is not enough. Many of the idolaters knew and believed that only the Supreme God could do all this, but that was not enough to make them Muslims. To tawhid ar-rububiyyah one must add tawhid al'uluhiyyah, i.e., one acknowledges the fact that is God alone Who deserves to be worshipped, and thus abstains from worshipping any other thing or being.

Having achieved this knowledge of the one true God, man should constantly have faith in Him, and should allow nothing to induce him to deny truth.

When faith enters a person's heart, it causes certain mental states which result in certain actions. Taken together these mental states and actions are the proof for the true faith. The Prophet said, "Faith is that which resides firmly in the heart and which is proved by deeds." Foremost among those mental states is the feeling of gratitude towards God which could be said to be the essence of 'ibada' (worship).

The feeling of gratitude is so important that a non-believer is called 'kafir' which means 'one who denies a truth' and also 'one who is ungrateful.'

A believer loves, and is grateful to God for the bounties He bestowed upon him, but being aware of the fact that his good deeds, whether mental or physical, are far from being commensurate with Divine favors, he is always anxious lest God should punish him, here or in the Hereafter. He, therefore, fears Him, surrenders himself to Him and serves Him with great humility. One cannot be in such a mental state without being almost all the time mindful of God. Remembering God is thus the life force of faith, without which it fades and withers away.

The Quran tries to promote this feeling of gratitude by repeating the attributes of God very frequently. We find most of these attributes mentioned together in the following verses of the Quran:

"He is God; there is no god but He, He is the Knower of the unseen and the visible; He is the All-Merciful, the All-Compassionate. He is God, there is no God but He. He is the King, the All-Holy, the All-Peace, the Guardian of Faith, the All-Preserver, the All-Mighty, the All-Compeller, the All-Sublime. Glory be to God, above that they associate! He is God the Creator, the Maker, the Shaper. To Him belong the Names Most Beautiful. All that is in the heavens and the earth magnifies Him; He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise." (59:22-24)

"There is no god but He, the Living, the Everlasting. Slumber seizes Him not, neither sleep; to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth. Who is there that shall intercede with Him save by His leave? He knows what lies before them and what is after them, and they comprehend not anything of His knowledge save such as He wills. His throne comprises the heavens and earth; the preserving of them oppresses Him not; He is the All-High, the All-Glorious." (2:255)

"People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not, 'Three.' Refrain; better is it for you. God is only one God. Glory be to Him - (He is) above having a son." (4:171)

Quote:

Originally posted by Scholarcs:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sir Krustin:
Step on them Bomb 'em, shoot 'em, obliterate them until they scream "uncle". Do whatever it takes to show them who is stronger. Until this is done, the arabs won't submit and the terrorism will continue.

After thinking about this for a while, I have decided that you are completely wrong.

If you kill one member of a cell, the others are not about to give up and cry for american mercy.

If you kill innocent civilians, then you will create resistance and a hatred of america in their families. That is where terrorists come from.

The more violence is done by america to the arabs, the more terrorists will be made.[/QUOTE]Actually, I had in mind a somewhat different strategy than the US has followed up to this point.

The grandstanding that the US has been doing is simply that - a political show (bread and circuses) for the masses.

I would favour using delta force and seal team 6, perhaps a few army ranger units. Avoid killing "innocent civilians", but if a country is found harbouring terrorist camps, send in a squad of commandos and obliterate the training camp - no hoorah, no advertising, just eliminate them. Similarly, if a terrorist cell is located, don't try to take them to trial - shoot them with extreme prejudice. Quietly. Say nothing, let rumours fly and fear gather itself in the minds of the would-be terrorists. don't let them know how much you know, or how closely you're watching them.

There's no need to spend billions on foreign deployments and risk offending allied governments in (for example) Saudi Arabia or Turkey. Special ops are far more cost effective.

LOL. Sir K., I don't have a problem with that. But, we don't even know where Saddam lives from day to day.

Quote:

Originally posted by Attalus:
LOL. Sir K., I don't have a problem with that. But, we don't even know where Saddam lives from day to day.

In one of his nine palaces, take your pick. :D

Saddam is a cagey one...favourite film being The Godfather (pretty obivous how he thinks of himself) That and he never actually appears himself in public, has body doubles galore.

All-out war will probably be the only way to "easily" take care of him, the CIA has been trying to off him for years. One thing in our favour, he's not well liked or trusted even by his arab neighbours.

I guess the scary about that action.. the seal team 6 and the delta force action.. the secret wars action.. the scary thing about the secret wars is that they are a secret. and when they are secret you get iran contras.. so you either think that iran contras are acceptable or you do not. I do not.

Quote:

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo:
I guess the scary about that action.. the seal team 6 and the delta force action.. the secret wars action.. the scary thing about the secret wars is that they are a secret. and when they are secret you get iran contras.. so you either think that iran contras are acceptable or you do not. I do not.

Well, I come from different background than you. Special ops WORK. The problem with the contras was they were unaccountable to elected officials, the were more than a special op - they were a BLACK OP. Everything they did was a secret from not just the public, but the government in charge.

This is a BIG DIFFERENCE from what I'm proposing.

Quote:

Originally posted by Melusine:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MagiK:
Personally I think that there is too much effort being put into trying to make the Bible a litteral work, and that it should be seen more an aliterative (is that the right word?) work. It uses parables and simple stories to teach meaning to what were basicly unschooled people.

Do you mean allegorical? Alliterative means several words in close succession in a sentence start with the same sound (like in "O wild West Wind, thou breath of Autumn's being"). [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE] Thanks Mel [img]smile.gif[/img] I didn't have time to double check...I keep getting allegory, alliteration and some other words confused..quite possibly because they all start with A :D 

[ 12-21-2002, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Quote:

Originally posted by Chewbacca:
I have never made a broad generalization about Christians or Christianity. I respect each individuals birthright to seek meaning in life as they find it, Be it spiritual or otherwise.

Chewy, I quite distinctly remember you having some rather negative things to say about Christianity and perhaps Catholicism, however since it was long ago and I can't prove it I'll just let it drop.

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