HMMMMMMMMMMM, how to start on this topic. First, of all I was was rasied Baptist. So, the Bible says none shell have intimate of the sexual nature before marrage. For, this will affect the purity of the two forwhom to be married. For, when the time came to consummate the marrage it not only pure to them but, also in God's eyes.

Second, I was force to go to church when I was a kid but, as adult I choose not too and also choose not to believe any religion or God. For, I have seen how it can tare a family apart with different beliefs.

So, I now leave u with ur own thoughts to this topic.

[img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img]

[ 02-05-2002: Message edited by: Realwho2 ]</p>

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Angel:
i feel like I am being preached to here... feels really awkward reading this post :(
So many long posts! No fun!
I think we should have more fun! chill out! [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

What do I think? I think sex before marriage is okay as long as it's nothing forced or awkward... u know... *makes face*<hr></blockquote>

<font color=lightblue> *gglz* ~grabs Angel's hands and twirls her around~ don't read the long preachy posts then *chuckles* stick to our wonderful welcome threads and the like! ~gglz~ ppl are bound to have different opinions and we all know that everyone likes to try and make others see their point of view. ~dances a few steps~ as long as they don't bash us over the head with their ideas on threads that has nothing to do with beliefs or religion it's kewl ~beams~

The whole cleaving together thing is too confusing ~confuddled~ I mean what if you think you're totally in love with someone and am engaged to marry him/her, would you make love (not have "sex") with him/her before the actual ceremony?

And if you do what if b4 you get married you realise that he/she isn't the one for you and that actually what you feel isn't the right kind of love towards him/her? Would this make your intention to save yourself for your spouse any less valid because you made a very human error in judgement?

Another thing I was wondering... how do you know you're totally compatible with someone unless you make love with them before you're married? I mean what if you get married and the sexual spark just isn't there? I would not be good to get married then 10years down the line divorce. :(

Also, what constitutes making love? Does it count as not saving yourself if you say, kiss someone else? Maybe explore but not actually have sexual intercourse? Or is it just the act of orgasming?

And last of all "love" this most indefinable word... how do you know when it is true love? How do you know that this is the only person you will ever truly love? I can't see into the future and I don't think anyone else can. So how can you possibly know that they are your one and only true love untill you are dead? People change and if you're not careful you might wake up one day with a strangers head next to yours. So I guess all we can do is try our best to make the right judgement, but we are not perfect.

I used to believe in saving myself for my loved one. But I also believed in making love before marriage (probably a rebellion against the repressed chinese idea that if a FEMALE has sex out of wedlock or even if she's raped she is ruined for life and impure and no one will ever want her and that husbands are entitled to have virgins for wives ~gnashes teeth at thoughts about double standards~)

I still believe in saving myself and I used to reason that if I ever felt that I could make love to a person (but then again what constitues making love?), then he must be my one true love so we'd probably be married anyway. But that was all before I realised the complexities of love. The different kinds of love. The whole big confusion! ~sigh~ Just how do u tell?!

Nothing is black and white anymore... everything's varying shades of grey.

</font>

I think sex before marriage is fine as long as it doesn't delay the ceremony. :D

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ʆë®Ñï†Ý:

Or is it just the act of orgasming?
><hr></blockquote>

Uh-oh...you used the "O" word...no one should do this before marraige

:D April Fools!

<font color=skyblue>Let me reinerate a point that I made previously.
If a man has intimate relations with a woman and gets her pregnant, he then may decide to leave her with child, alone to raise the kid. She, of course, may then decide to file for a child support claim, but alot of women (my sister-in-law, included) are so afraid to let the man come anywhere near their children...that they do not file the child support claim, because they do not want the man to feel like he is entitled to come near her or her baby. That is a misconception that some women have, because in truth, after getting child support, you can also get a legal statement for the man to stay away, or be prosecuted.
Then, the woman has to find another suitable man. When you have a kid...it is more difficult to find a man, as most men don't want a child already in the picture...and the woman has to constantly pay for babysitters in order to get back into the dating scene. I am speaking on this, as I see my sister-in-law going through it, and she has told me how much she wishes that she would have gotten married first. Now, the 6 year old nephew of mine is her burdon to bare, alone, trying to find a man that will date her, and possibly marry her. I mean, the poor kid does not have a father, and wants to paint his toenails like he sees his mommy doing!

Back to the point. How can a woman be absolutely positive that the man will not pregnatize her? Alot of guys will try to get out of wearing protection, if they can, and put that responsibility on the woman to be secured against pregnancy. Birth Control pills, I believe, are 85% effective, and you cannot miss not one day.

That is alot for a woman to work on and hope for. 85% is not 100%. The Depo shot is 98%, but causes pimples in some women, as well as 15 pound weight gain. </font>

Larry!! No way, birth control pills, when taken correctly, are a hell of a lot more trustworthy than a mere 85%
I believe the correct percentage for most pills is somewhere between 98% and 99,6%

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Melusine:
Larry!! No way, birth control pills, when taken correctly, are a hell of a lot more trustworthy than a mere 85%
I believe the correct percentage for most pills is somewhere between 98% and 99,6%<hr></blockquote>
<font color=skyblue>
Not every woman can take birth control pills. I have a friend who found herself having cold flashes and actually forgetting hours of her daily activities while on them, and her doctor told her to go off them when she finally became suicidal.
Drugs effect our bodies in different ways. Kaz cannot enjoy the relief that pain killers provide, if I remember right. The birth control pill does not work for every woman, and not every woman in the world has the stable mentality to remember a pill a day. </font>

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Larry_OHF:

<font color=skyblue>
Not every woman can take birth control pills. I have a friend who found herself having cold flashes and actually forgetting hours of her daily activities while on them, and her doctor told her to go off them when she finally became suicidal.
Drugs effect our bodies in different ways. Kaz cannot enjoy the relief that pain killers provide, if I remember right. The birth control pill does not work for every woman, and not every woman in the world has the stable mentality to remember a pill a day. </font><hr></blockquote>

That's absolutely true, but that's a different point.
You stated an incorrect percentage of trustworthiness and I corrected it. I didn't say anything about any other reasons why women can't take the pill, I know there are many. [img]smile.gif[/img]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Melusine:


That's absolutely true, but that's a different point.
You stated an incorrect percentage of trustworthiness and I corrected it. I didn't say anything about any other reasons why women can't take the pill, I know there are many. [img]smile.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>

Just an interesting anecdote (or not) Both my children were conceived while my wife was on the pill. The first was due to a bad shipment lot of the pill and the second was due to anti-biotic interference with the pill [img]smile.gif[/img] Not that I regret having my kids [img]smile.gif[/img] if they need to be born, a way will be found apparently [img]smile.gif[/img]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MagiK:


Just an interesting anecdote (or not) Both my children were conceived while my wife was on the pill. The first was due to a bad shipment lot of the pill and the second was due to anti-biotic interference with the pill [img]smile.gif[/img] Not that I regret having my kids [img]smile.gif[/img] if they need to be born, a way will be found apparently [img]smile.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>

That's what I was referring to when I said "when correctly used".

These days it is a well-known fact antibiotics interfere with the pill's functioning, at least where I live. My apothecary, when I pick up prescribed antibiotics, always warns me to use additional protection because the pill will be less trustworthy.

The current generation of pills is VERY safe, but of course there is not one anti-conception product that guarantees 100% safety. The pill comes very close though, almost all cases of conception during pill use are due to situations such as you describe above.
Sorry to hear it failed in your case.

<font color=skyblue>On a chart that a doctor showed my wife, the Depo shot, taken once every 4 months is the most effective. There was something else on the list, then the Pill was Number 3.

I suppose people will be aggrivated that I took this off-topic, but my reasoning behind all of this was to show that intimate relations may or may not lead to pregnancy...and unless married...most girls do not want that burdon...and neither do the guys. The man may run, leaving the woman alone, and with child. Was a 30 second fling with that bastard worth it?
(Sorry if I offended anyone that only takes 30 seconds... ;) ...this was an example only. I am not predjdice against guys who can't get it outta their pants soon enough...)</font>

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ʆë®Ñï†Ý:



And if you do what if b4 you get married you realise that he/she isn't the one for you and that actually what you feel isn't the right kind of love towards him/her? Would this make your intention to save yourself for your spouse any less valid because you made a very human error in judgement?

Another thing I was wondering... how do you know you're totally compatible with someone unless you make love with them before you're married? I mean what if you get married and the sexual spark just isn't there? I would not be good to get married then 10years down the line divorce. :(

Also, what constitutes making love? Does it count as not saving yourself if you say, kiss someone else? Maybe explore but not actually have sexual intercourse? Or is it just the act of orgasming?


[/i]</font>[/b]<hr></blockquote>

forget what I think for now....my mother used to say: of course you never know if you are 100% sexually compatible with someone before you try it, but if you love someone enough that you want to marry them....the good chance is that they will have attracted you in the first place...physically and by character and there is only a minute chance that with a bit of ahem..."practice" you cannot become compatible physically...
So she was saying that there is no excuse for "the spark not being there." If you love someone you will find a way to love them physically and be satisfied. Also, this is why marriage should not be rushed- make sure you love the person.

About what constitutes sex? Well kissing obviously not but oral sex ....maybe I think it does. Things that can lead to sex like foreplay- I think the Bible means to include that in "not before marriage".

Well, whatever you do with someone other than your spouse, is something that will not be something only you and he/she share. Depends on how much you want to save, that you do or do not do.

You could argue that even passionately kissing is part of sexual intimacy.

[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: Yorick ]</p>

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Yorick:

You could argue that even passionately kissing is part of sexual intimacy.
<hr></blockquote>

How?

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Scholarcs:


How?<hr></blockquote>

Isn't that obvious?
Because you don't do it with just anybody, with your grandpa, the postman... well at least I hope you don't.
I agree with Yorick, you could classify it as such.
A lot of people feel passionate kissing with someone else than your partner is cheating, they feel that way for a reason.
It can lead to more and often does, the thought is there as well.