Another Song of Ice Fire fan!! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...ons/icon14.gif

While I agree with you that D&D demons are not very powerfull, I have seen in multiple sourcebooks the 9 demons lord of Hell, and some of the Abyss, being refereed as quasi power (quasi god). So I think that a mortal being able to beat them is a little too much.

What I don't like about that series is that the main character get some extremely powerfull powers/items from gods, and I think it's an overkill. The term used to describe such campaign is "Maunty Haul" and it's never a good thing. I would love that series a lot more if the main character had never received such powerfull powers/items.

Those items remove all challenge. I can accept the Demon Lords getting defeated in an epic battle lasting 25 days and night, but I sure can't accept them getting defeated in one less than an hour.

So, my opinion is that story had potential. But no challenge and suspense is boring, in my opinion.

Since you are a fan of George R.R. Martin, you should know what I am talking about. The characters in a Song of Ice and Fire are all balanced, and you never know if they are going to die or survive. That's a good thing.</font>[/QUOTE]I actually read the Gord the Rogue series back when it was first released(last book was released in 1988 and I was a hard core gamer back then). I got a kick out of it then, but its not really what I read now. I used to like the Drizzt books, but now then seem a bit basic(though I did like the Entreri book). I do love Martin's books though(Can't say much more, but its just damn good stuff). Just wish he would write faster, hehe. Currently reading Steven Brust's "Taltos" books, and love them also (though they are way too short).

funny... i couldn't really think of any but the Baldur's Gate novel i read... it made go on a laughing trip... I don't know why... the whole book left me shock... it wasn't i expected... i expected something more serious and comedic when it is comedic... but this was just plain ol funny and it's dead serious... *smiles*

Sword of Shanarra. *shudders* Basically, a poorly written Lord of the Rings rip-off with boring characters and a predictable plot. I still can't believe I somehow managed to read it all the way through, but I really can't recommend it to anyone.

Oooooh - sometimes it's nice to see a really old thread revived :D

Anyone care to resurrect the "Library, bar" etc. review thread?? :eek:

I've never been able to just sit down and get the Bible done and away with... Such a pain to deal with that old English... Not that inaccessibility makes a bad book. I had a lot of trouble reading James Joyce's Ulysses, and Dante Aligherie's Comedy, but I won't deny the tour-de-force those books presented, the raw power of them.

But, the worst book I ever took the trouble to read? That's a tough one. I don't remember particularly bad literature well, but I'd say I found no redeeming value in the latter day Dune books. Herbert's work is best left alone...

Oblivion, get a modern day translation of the Bible such as The Message and I promise you'll find it extremely accessible. And it is very faithful to the original languages.

Dahlgren by Samual R. Delany was terrible.

After much thinking i found the needed book in my shelf of shame: Destiny by elizabeth haydon. That's it. Terrible, boring, very boring, extremely boring book. I doubt that even Nik Perumov could reached the current depth of antiskill. On the second thought-he already had.

<font color=pink>Hum. I tend to only read books recommended by my father or brother since they have the same taste in literature as me, so my choices are boiled down to one single book that I can't even remember the name of...we were forced to read it for AP Lit&Comp...about this english chick named Jane with an evil aunt and 3 cousins...falls in love with some ugly old rich man in front of a horse chestnut tree...ffs, I'll look it up...aha! DUH, Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte. I'm also adding The Scarlet Letter to that list. Both books bored me to death [img]tongue.gif[/img] </font>

Oh man. I'm distressed to see so many bad reviews of God Emperor of Dune (and the books after it) ;)

GEoD is certainly a different kind of story to the first three. I think it's more of a theoretical sociology treatise than an action-packed sci fi thriller. In writing it I really think Herbert was trying to accomplish different goals than he was with its predecessors. Alot of Leto's social engineering objectives are more or less explained in Heretics of Dune. Also, with regards to Leto's aloof high-and-mightiness, well, I think its a highly 'believable' character trait for someone who has seen (or indeed who has experienced) every epoch of human history through other-memory, and who has seen humanity's inevitable future through prescience. Leto does know everything, and as such he is totally alone, indeed totally 'unsurprisable' (he laments countless times the utter boredom of already knowing the exact unfolding of the future), yet despite this he is not made indifferent to the needs of humanity and maintains the Atreides 'nobility'. He follows the Golden Path as the only means of preventing humanity from destorying itself... the details of which are explained in the following book.

Leto doesn't explain himself in this particular installment of the Dune saga because Herbert knows he doesnt need to. The reader is on-par with the other characters in the story in being held ignorant to Leto's designs to alter the course of human social history through his millenia-spanning forced tranquility. I very much think that Herbert knew exactly what he was going to write in 'Heretics' as he was writing 'God Emperor', as practically all of Leto's actions are explained via the thousands of years of hindsight from the age of 'Leto the Tyrant' that the characters in 'Heretics' have.

Thus I think that in contrast to the first action-packed Dune trilogy, God Emperor functions more as an incredibly elaborate and emotional historical theory textbook for the action that takes place in 'Heretics'. And as such it works tremendously well. Also, I think that Herbert had the Dune saga as a whole in mind when he wrote these books, and God Emperor is the necessarily dry installment, absolutely laden with anthropological theory, in order to lay the groundwork for the later 'finale' books.

Alot of people obviously didn't have the patience for it (and I'll admit it took me a little while to get out of 'action' mode and into 'philosophically theorizing' mode in order to fully appreciate GEoD), but that's a real shame as I think Herbert offers some great philosophical ideas regarding the predictable patterns of human social engineering in this book. And after wading through all of the hard slog of it all (it took me twice as long to read this one as any of the other Dune novels due to the fact that I'd have to read a section, then think 'hmmmm I wonder what Herbert meant by that', then read the section over again [img]smile.gif[/img] ) you are really set up for an atmospherically rich treat with Heretics of Dune...

[ 07-11-2004, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]

Hiero man, I love philosophising books - why do you think I'm a sci fi fan in the first place! Sci fi at its best is about mans place and destiny in the universe, and it often makes me think a hell of a lot more than regular fiction.

However I do not think God Emporer is sci fi at its best. I'm glad you got so much out of it but I just plain disagree that its a deeper book than the rest. I don't think the others are action-adventure style by any means, they're just faster moving as the characters are actually involving. I don't have a problem with Leto being smug other than it makes it hard to sympathise with him, which Herbert quite obviously wants you to do. Also, as you say yourself, we regard Leto in the same way the other characters do - so why do they come around to his way of thinking when I don't! That should make their actions regarding him easier to understand, not harder! If they have the same outlook on Leto as me then they should react in the same way - they were unbelievable as given the same information as me they reacted in a completely inexplicable manner.

I personally didn't think he was slowing down and philosophising but instead he had written himself into a corner and had to go through the unfortunate process of writing a book he didn't want to in order to get out of it... The whole book seemed half hearted, poorly thought through, unbelievable, and just generally not thought provoking or fun to read. It read like someone caricaturing Herbert's byzantine-thriller-in-space style.

But Heretics and Chapter House were better. Not as good as the first three, but better than God Emporer.

Cleric Quintet, Legacy of the Drow. Uber munchin characters, half assed attempts at romance, LAME plot,completely ridiculous fights (oh look, a powerfull demon of the abyss. let's kill it then go for lunch). RA salvatore Cannot write anymore.

http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...1;t=001618;p=2

These are my contributions to the Salvatore Ostracsism (sp?) Do have a look!! :D

I realise I'm awfully late with this but i havent been present lately... if you like a book with a lot of fighting where ppl actually can get hurt etc. Try reading David Gemmell! he has some good books where theres a lot of fighting around castles and forts etc. And his characters can actually die (altough they hardly do because well... they are heroes and heroes tend to be lucky)

[ 08-03-2004, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: Rikard T'Aranaxz ]

Its almost like the famed Archlich Wah vs Demi-Diety Rikard stories :/
cept that rikard actually got stabbed to death in a bar by a measly peasant trying to steal his cash :<

Phoo-ee! A lot of fun to read the entire thread, and while I don't know many of the abominations that show up here, I can honestly say I understand your pain.

I disagree on David Eddings writing nothing but bad books. I find the Belgariad a very intriguing tale, lots of humorous situations in there that crack me up a good many times. I don't know about his later works (except the successor of the Belgariad, but I trust your opinion ;)

Dreamer: It's nice to see you mention Sword of Shannara by Terry Brooks. Some seven years ago, when I did my best to read all fantasy novels in the local library, I stumbled across Sword of Shannara. I hadn't read Lord of the Rings back then so I thought the story was pretty stupid. Suffice to say, the book is on the shelf as I'm typing this. I reread it a year or so ago, and was astonished by how many the man had stolen from Lord of the Rings! :eek: Not only is Shea small (*cough*hobbit*cough*) he also basically travels the exact same path as Frodo does; cut off from the party, struggling with his burden blah blah.
His later works DO improve, though. In the follow-up for Sword of Shannara, entitled The Elfstones of Shannara, Terry Brooks heads in a total different direction. He actually comes up with a decent storyline (about a tree called the Ellcrys which supposedly protects the Elven nation from utter destruction by a demon army), with nice plot twists and suspense because of chasing demons. And in my opinion it only gets better with the invention of his 'Wishsong', especially the Heritage of Shannara. I can recommend that, honestly! [img]smile.gif[/img]

What I like about Brooks as well is the large scale battles he tells about (main reason for me liking The Elfstones. Raymond E. Feist did that too with A Darkness over Sethanon but I'm not an overly fan of that series. Pug has become a munchkin and sometimes I don't understand what happened (like the ending in the Riftwar saga).

Sooo on to the book that I think was utter crap. I think my vote has to go to Sword of Shannara. I can't think of anything else really. Most books on my shelf are things I've bought myself because I liked it already. Nothing sensationally bad (except for Brooks [img]smile.gif[/img] )

I advise you to read Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials if you're open minded to fantasy. It's not your average tale about elves and dwarves, totally different. And it's one of best book series I've ever read. There's three books in the series;
</font>

• The Golden Compass (also known as Northern Lights)</font>
• The Subtle Knife</font>
• The Amber Spyglass</font>

Holy thread necromancy, Batman!~

Anyways, maybe people have come up with some new horrible books to share with us!

Worst books...

John Grisham's "The Noun"

Robert Jordan's "Neverending Story"

Danielle Steel's "#%^@ing and Manipulation Disguised as Romance"

Margaret Laurence- 'The Stone Angel'.
Stupid English class... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Most of the worst books I've ever read I tend to forget altogether so it's tough thinking of any. I can only remember one book I read sometime last year, The Hellfire Club by Peter Straub. I've read a few P. Straub books (Shadowland, The Talisman and Black House, both co-written alongside Stephen King) and they were good, so I thought to try another.

Gah it was horrible. The story was bad, characters were bad, it was obscene and gross in parts for no storyline reasons at all, and the ending is stupid. I remember when I bought the book I looked in the cover and there was a review by Stephen King "Awesome thrilling ride!". Wonder how much they paid him to say that LOL? It was anything but awesome, and I saw no thrilling whatsoever, I do suppose I took some sort of ride, although the entire time I wanted to get off. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 07-26-2005, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: ladyzekke ]

Absolute worst book I forced myself to finish was "The Technology Mafia" by T.L. Sparbel. I only bought it because I met the author at a booksigning, and when he told me about it he hinted that it was based on true events he saw while he was in the military. I'm sure the author did his own editing and financed his own publishing, 'cause no one else would have. The book's listed on Amazon.com and if you go to the Amazon review page and read the 1st review you'll get an idea what it was like. I guarantee he wrote that review. I recognized the writing style. Imagine 400 pages like that. There were spelling, grammar, or punctuation errors on almost every page. The action wasn't exciting. Oh, and the (few) love scenes were painfully uninspiring. I kept reading, hoping it would get better. It never did.

Edit: I was right!! I reread that review and the publisher is listed as "AuthorHouse". I searched their site & found that they're a "self-publishing" house, for anyone who thinks they're a writer.

[ 07-27-2005, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: VulcanRider ]

I think they covered that angle in a recent episode of the Simpsons where Marge wrote a book, they called up authors and asked them if they would say something to the effect of "this is a great book" and when they repeated it back questioningly, then added a WTF, and a heck no they were tol that by repeating the phrase they would and could be quoted with saying "this is a great book." Seems the most plausible explanation for good authors recommending crap.

My number one choice: The Da Vinci Code

I fail to understand how so many people have become captivated by this badly written "boy's own" adventure. Just take some random words, add conspiricy theorys, and stir.

(Dis)honourable mention
Any of the Wheel of Time books, except perhaps the first. Hasn't Jordon ever heard of editing?

I think they covered that angle in a recent episode of the Simpsons where Marge wrote a book, they called up authors and asked them if they would say something to the effect of "this is a great book" and when they repeated it back questioningly, then added a WTF, and a heck no they were tol that by repeating the phrase they would and could be quoted with saying "this is a great book." Seems the most plausible explanation for good authors recommending crap. </font>[/QUOTE]LOL Morge. That sounds as good of an answer as any.

Clancy "If you're hunting for a book this red October, Marge Simpson's book is a clear and present danger to your free time. No I will not say that. What? That doesn't count!"

That aired today in syndication :D

The Da Vince Code is probably so gripping because the events are actually possible, in our own grasp. Catch my drift?

Don't laugh at me for even thinking of reading this book, cause I needed a lot of reading material for a 21 hour trip: I read Shadowdale, and it damn near killed me.

I thought it might be interesting, since I wanted to know about what happened in the time of troubles and all (since BG2 had such a good storyline), but instead I was treated to a gripping tale of a fighter, theif, cleric, and mage (who were frequently called just that. 8-bit DnD, anyone?).

What really struck me was how dumb and whiney the gods were. Mystra got herself killed cause she whined too much, Helm seems a tad bumbling, all the gods are complaining about their temples (when they should have known they were about to taste holy hell at the hands of Ao), and Bane was just plain stupid.

Oh, and Cyric mysteriously switches between a sword, a handaxe, and twin daggers.

Dont read it.

On Shadowdale, I read the last one in teh series (Waterdeep?) and I refused for a very long time to even think about reading another Forgotten Realms novel.

A bit disapointing because I usually like Troy Denning's work (he wrote it under a pen name)